Sim,
It is the first row second one.
I remember you still cannot find out where is your ancestors came from because you only know the village name.South malaysianand East malaysian spaek chuanhiu minnan butcertainly not amoy.beijing language is not the same with putonghua and guanhua yet not the same with beijing in sound.Cantonese has three schools and many minor school just like chuan chiu are not all the same.
The thing about cantonese ngam is that minnan dict don't have to create a sound for it.Minnan suffix a=cantonese zai appear very strange in putonghua until they have no idea to find a sound for it.
I find that in minnan we can use tau7 for suitable for people.
"tiong-ng" (middle)
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hong
Re: "tiong-ng" (middle)
No,the meaning cannot be evolve become suitable .It is the same with putonghua like become gamguan by choice.i remember kaiah from Taiwan had mentioned ha will be perfect.
The other subject marker in questions gam is from guhanyu which didn't use by malaysian or even those from the south.
The other subject marker in questions gam is from guhanyu which didn't use by malaysian or even those from the south.
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hong
Re: "tiong-ng" (middle)
Beijinghua use ti,ty(zhu zi) hanzi for chopstick like min languages which is a word from Qin dynasty used in whole mainland china.I suspect (not sure yet because no money to buy)taiwanese are using Beijing language sound for their mandarin but since 1950s china change to Min and Qing dynasty Guanhua which has different sound for some zi.Both are not beijinghua in grammar,syntax,word choice.Both are outcome of Baihuawen mainly started since 1920s.Every strange or rude beijinghua is not included in putonghua.Many Japanese zi are included in putonghua.
The old hanji in minnan jiao(lanjiao=penis) is niao in beijinghua which old beijing people still using it a lot.
The old hanji in minnan jiao(lanjiao=penis) is niao in beijinghua which old beijing people still using it a lot.
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hong
Re: "tiong-ng" (middle)
It is true that minnan in Sumatra should learn Longhai chiangchiu language properly.They need to have 2 vol of longhaifangyanzhi by Prof Chiu.People in Penang and North malaysia don't have to learn chiangchiu because their minnan education should be about each chuanchiu sect they belong to.Wei tried to find chiangchiu for his article in Kwonghua daily but failed to find chiangchiu people in Penang .He ended up with mostly NanAn and Huian.I even have to email him about an artilce from China that there are 1.65 m of chuanchiu in Malaysia ten years ago.
I hold the view that education of minnan or any chinese dialect should be about learning each person ancestor sect.It is very difficult to do so for people outside china.HongKong cantonese can only speak Guangzhou but not dongguan and daishan yueyu.And this is the case for Taiwanese too-Wushouli who wrote a 3000 pages dict ended up saying he doesn't know what kind of minnan he is speaking.
I hold the view that education of minnan or any chinese dialect should be about learning each person ancestor sect.It is very difficult to do so for people outside china.HongKong cantonese can only speak Guangzhou but not dongguan and daishan yueyu.And this is the case for Taiwanese too-Wushouli who wrote a 3000 pages dict ended up saying he doesn't know what kind of minnan he is speaking.
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hong
Re: "tiong-ng" (middle)
Chuachiu people in South malaysia still retain chuachiu vowel like ky for go,gy for language but the grammar/syntax for chuanchiu is not correct.I think it is because they watch a lot of xiamen movie in the 50s .The chuachiu give thoo .etc are complete unknown for most of them
It is very hard to learn chuanchiu because some sects like HuiAn even have chiancgchiu-like An Ne for usual An ni.
It is very hard to learn chuanchiu because some sects like HuiAn even have chiancgchiu-like An Ne for usual An ni.
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niucls
Re: "tiong-ng" (middle)
Hi Sim & Hong 
The romanization system used in daiwanway dict is different from ours: 'kam' = 'kham' (bue7 kham1), 'gam' = 'kam' (m7 kam1).
Sim, it's true that nasal initials (m-, n-, ng-) usually denasalized in Hokkien (-> b-, l-, g-), but some remain. Some literary readings still retain those initials although their colloquial do not, such as:
'ma2' = 'be2' = horse
'ngo`2' = 'gua2' = I
...and interestingly vice versa:
'bing5' = 'mia*5' = name
Beside 'ng5' (yellow) and 'nge8' (to squeeze, also 'ngue8' or 'khue8'), there are quite a number of words with initial 'ng-':
'nge4'/'ngue4' = to pick s.t. w/ chopsticks
'nga2' = refined / beautiful
'ngo`5' = surname Ngo -> variant: 'go`5' = Goh
'ngiau1' = to tickle / ticklish
'ngi7' = stiff / hard
'ng3' = to face certain direction / to face upward / to hope
The literary reading of 'ng1' (centre/middle) is 'iong1' e.g.: central goverment = tiong1 iong1 cing3 hu2 (my sandhi: tiong7_iong7_cing1_hu2) = zhong1yang1zheng4fu3 in Mandarin.
Some Singaporean whose ancestors were from Cuanciu area also have their surname written as Wee instead of Ng. Personally I find 'ui*' a nice sound. While it's almost absent in our dialect, we have it in 'kui*1' (to shut / close / put into prison), some read 'kuai*1'.
Hong, I agree that the Hokkien word for 'ngam1'/'gam1' is 'ha8'. The basic meaning of 'tau3' (not 'tau7') is to install / pair up / match and we also always say 'e7 tau3 e0' for suitable / can cope well (-> people).
Most of Hokkien people in Northern Sumatra (around Medan) speak Ciangciu type, Eastern and Southern speak Cuanciu type. Interestingly, in Medan many of them originated from Cuanciu instead of Ciangciu. It's very similar to Penang.
[%sig%]
The romanization system used in daiwanway dict is different from ours: 'kam' = 'kham' (bue7 kham1), 'gam' = 'kam' (m7 kam1).
Sim, it's true that nasal initials (m-, n-, ng-) usually denasalized in Hokkien (-> b-, l-, g-), but some remain. Some literary readings still retain those initials although their colloquial do not, such as:
'ma2' = 'be2' = horse
'ngo`2' = 'gua2' = I
...and interestingly vice versa:
'bing5' = 'mia*5' = name
Beside 'ng5' (yellow) and 'nge8' (to squeeze, also 'ngue8' or 'khue8'), there are quite a number of words with initial 'ng-':
'nge4'/'ngue4' = to pick s.t. w/ chopsticks
'nga2' = refined / beautiful
'ngo`5' = surname Ngo -> variant: 'go`5' = Goh
'ngiau1' = to tickle / ticklish
'ngi7' = stiff / hard
'ng3' = to face certain direction / to face upward / to hope
The literary reading of 'ng1' (centre/middle) is 'iong1' e.g.: central goverment = tiong1 iong1 cing3 hu2 (my sandhi: tiong7_iong7_cing1_hu2) = zhong1yang1zheng4fu3 in Mandarin.
Some Singaporean whose ancestors were from Cuanciu area also have their surname written as Wee instead of Ng. Personally I find 'ui*' a nice sound. While it's almost absent in our dialect, we have it in 'kui*1' (to shut / close / put into prison), some read 'kuai*1'.
Hong, I agree that the Hokkien word for 'ngam1'/'gam1' is 'ha8'. The basic meaning of 'tau3' (not 'tau7') is to install / pair up / match and we also always say 'e7 tau3 e0' for suitable / can cope well (-> people).
Most of Hokkien people in Northern Sumatra (around Medan) speak Ciangciu type, Eastern and Southern speak Cuanciu type. Interestingly, in Medan many of them originated from Cuanciu instead of Ciangciu. It's very similar to Penang.
[%sig%]
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Sim
Re: "tiong-ng" (middle)
Niuc,
Thanks for that wonderful list of "ng-" words.
Because of my limited Hokkien, I didn't know most of them except "ngiau1" (tickle), which I was delighted to be reminded of. It's not a word which I, as an adult, use much these days, so I had more or less forgotten it. Your mentioning it brought back many childhood memories of being tickled by my grandmother (or of the constant threats she made that she would do it!).
I also found the information on "tiong-iong" very interesting.
Haha!, the old "kui*1"/"kuai*1" thing. I seem to remember this subject arising in another note, and me saying at the time that I use to hear my maternal relatives saying "kui* mng" for "shut the door", and it always sounded amusing because for me it meant "lock up the door, put the door in prison"!
Cheers,
Sim.
[%sig%]
Thanks for that wonderful list of "ng-" words.
Because of my limited Hokkien, I didn't know most of them except "ngiau1" (tickle), which I was delighted to be reminded of. It's not a word which I, as an adult, use much these days, so I had more or less forgotten it. Your mentioning it brought back many childhood memories of being tickled by my grandmother (or of the constant threats she made that she would do it!).
I also found the information on "tiong-iong" very interesting.
Haha!, the old "kui*1"/"kuai*1" thing. I seem to remember this subject arising in another note, and me saying at the time that I use to hear my maternal relatives saying "kui* mng" for "shut the door", and it always sounded amusing because for me it meant "lock up the door, put the door in prison"!
Cheers,
Sim.
[%sig%]
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Niuc
Re: "tiong-ng" (middle)
Hi Sim
You are most welcome
Hahaha then if we say 'kui*1 tiam3' (close shop), it sounds like "put the shop in prison" to you
Same here, if I hear Medan people say 'gia4_lai5' (sandhi of 'gia8 lai5': bring it here), it sounds a bit funny to me as "bring pear"
Our sandhi is 'gia8 lai0' ('lai5' neutralized).
[%sig%]
You are most welcome
Hahaha then if we say 'kui*1 tiam3' (close shop), it sounds like "put the shop in prison" to you
Same here, if I hear Medan people say 'gia4_lai5' (sandhi of 'gia8 lai5': bring it here), it sounds a bit funny to me as "bring pear"
Our sandhi is 'gia8 lai0' ('lai5' neutralized).
[%sig%]
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hong
Re: "tiong-ng" (middle)
Niu,
Tnahks for that tau3.We can say bue7 tau3 e0 for so many people around us.The spelling in daiwanay for to pick delicately with a sharp stick is qniau=gniau.
I think we should type in another online dict ngiau for more words in many meaning
kha te(toe) ngiau =kha chhng ngiau ===cannot stand it but wanted to try.
http://iug.csie.dahan.edu.tw/iug/Ungian ... Taihoa.asp
Tnahks for that tau3.We can say bue7 tau3 e0 for so many people around us.The spelling in daiwanay for to pick delicately with a sharp stick is qniau=gniau.
I think we should type in another online dict ngiau for more words in many meaning
kha te(toe) ngiau =kha chhng ngiau ===cannot stand it but wanted to try.
http://iug.csie.dahan.edu.tw/iug/Ungian ... Taihoa.asp
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hong
Re: "tiong-ng" (middle)
niu,
compare with yours- above dict put h stop for pick with chopstick ngeh 夾.This hanzi has a lot of other sounds-kah,kap,kiap,giap,
compare with yours- above dict put h stop for pick with chopstick ngeh 夾.This hanzi has a lot of other sounds-kah,kap,kiap,giap,