Foreign Vocabularies in Penang Hokkien

[Eng Wai]

Thanks Hong

http://www.ling.udel.edu/pcole/Malay/In ... racts.html is a dead link
http://www.ling.udel.edu/pcole/MalayInd ... racts.html is not much of my interest
http://chinese.pku.edu.cn/bbs/thread.ph ... t&aid=5408 is very comprehensive and will consume much of my time in recent future
http://chinese.pku.edu.cn/bbs/thread.ph ... t&aid=5408 is not bad.

Specially recommend the third one.

And I a, quite kay po I would like to know more about gan, xiang and wu languages/dialects. Do yuo have any good link?

Eng Wai

[hong]

above web site always down.Don't think there above articles are good enough for us to have a good level of min language.Still countless material to be read for Phd degree,etc.I am lacking 2000 pounds of money to buy and pay some library for many more out of print papers.Theses are more than 500 for min and papers are more than 1000.
http://www.wu-chinese.org
http://www.csulb.edu/~txie/shanghaihua.html
http://www.zanhe.com/general.html

[hong]

to understand taiwanese minnan for free online.and quickly .the best are these two siteshttp://www.uijin.idv.tw/dissertation
http://www.ntl.gov.tw/publish/culture2/cul2_04.htm

[Tang Loon Kong]

Hi guys

First let me thank those people who have provided the websites and I shall visit them every opportunity I get.

Some of the comments show that the forum for it to expand appreciably, there must some kind of financing. Maybe we look at the Hokkien Huay Kuans nearby, if the Hokkiens are not too busy filling up their own bank accounts.

I saw Eng Wai's classification of 'kangkong'as a foreign word in Hokkien vocabulary. I was like him too until I found out that the 'kangkong' was also called 'kong xin chai in Mandarin.

I wondered why? Well, look in the middle of the stem's cross section that we eat, it's totally empty. That is why it is called 'kong-xin' chai in Mandarin. If we were translate this into Hokkien, it could easily turned out into "khang khong chai" which also means empty. Therefore from here onwards, it is quite impossible now to classify 'kangkong" as a foreign word in Hokkien language. In fact, this very probably a very bona-fide Hokkien word.

Therefore, we cannot let the discussions of languages be confined to the only linguists. We should include some kind of perceptive analysis that must make sense of the words we are talking about. Take for example 'beca' or 'bechia' which means triashaw in Malay. Well, we all know what 'be' (horse) is, and we also know what 'chia' is. But we do not see nowadays any horse on the streets, and yet we have this word 'beca'. Why? Because, this word was coined long time ago when there were horse carriages on the streets. The horse is now gone, and the carriage has been modified for human power propulsion.

I have also come across some official publications for tourists in China that says the ancient Chinese see the outside world through the eyes of the Hokkiens because most of the travelling were done by the Hokkiens and would have come back with all sorts of stories and tales. Ming you, this is official publication by some oturism body in China.

See you guys later

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year ("Sin Ni Quai Lok" as they say in Shanghai)


Tang Loon Kong
Shanghai, China

[Eng Wai]

What is khong? Khang is empty, chai is vegetable. Can we find kangkung in Hokkien province?

Anyway, I made a mistake of classifying kangkung as foreign word in Penang Hokkien. Eng chai is very common in Penang to describe Kang Kung. Hardly anyone use Kangkung in Hokkien, execpt in Malay discourse or ryhmes.

[Tang Loon Kong]

Hi Eng Wai

I have eaten them in China. That is why they are called Kong Xin Chai over here.

Tang Loon Kong
Shanghai, China

[Niuc]

Hi Loon Kong

Any Hokkiens in China using kangkong for 空心菜 (Mdr: kong1xin1cai4)? Like Eng Wai, we only say ing3-chai3 and never kangkong/khang1khong1.

Eng Wai, khong1 is the literary reading of khang1 空.

[%sig%]

[Eng Wai]

Do you know the english word for Kangkung? I miss it very much. I remeber this is my favourite vegetable among all.

Tang, I don't understand how you translate kong1 xin1 cai4 to khang khung cai. Are khang n khong here both mean empty? Will we repeat empty 2 times for naming purpose? Or the khong here means anything else?

I am pretty upbeat of the discovery of Kangkung being a hokkien word.

Eng Wai

[Tang Loon Kong]

Hi Eng Wai

I sense your growing enthusiasm. I just hope that my students are more like you.

I think the 'eng chai' or 'kong-xin chai' or 'kangkong' is called water crest in English. Yes, it is my favorite vegetable too, expecially when it is fried with sambal belacan. I can eat much rice with just that.

Now for the business at hand. Let us say when you enter an empty room and somebody asked you if there was anybody in that room, you would answer in Hokkien as "khang khang" whichmeans empty. The answer in this way emphasizes the emptiness of the room. Therefore, in the case of the kangkong, the use of the double syllable can be construed to emphasize the empty centre at the cross-section of the stem.

I have to check what Hokkiens called them in China.

[casey]

I have heard about "kangkong" being a borrowed word from Hokkien by Bahasa somewhere before but could not be certain where. Its reasoning: "空心“ (hollow) in Hokkien was pronounced as "空管” (khang1 kong2)。 However, since Hokkiens commonly call this vegetable "ing3 chai3" 应菜? or 雍(草头)菜?, not "khang1 kong2 chai3, how could Malays borrow this term?

I have not come across any English term for this vegetable except in Thailand where it is called "morning glory" (phak3 bung2) in the menu.