Penang Hokkien

[Niuc]

Andrew, well done!

Btw, 你 lu2 - 豬 tu1 - 魚 hu5 is neither of Teochew nor of Tang-ua* as they are ly2 - ty1 - hy5 in both dialects (also in Cuanciu dialects). 'y' = reversed 'm'. According to 廈門方言詞典, 'lu' is of suburb of E-mng, 'li' of E-mng city, 'ly' of Tang-ua*.

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[Andrew Yong]

Thank you all for the encouragement. As with everything on Wikipedia, it is free for everyone to edit as they wish.

I have removed the reference to Teochew for lu, tu, hu, etc, but Douglas specifically mentions that it is a feature of Tongan and the villages on Amoy island. Might there have been a change in the intervening years?


andrew

[hong]

I don't agree with the idea of promote penang hokkien but rather the name should be baba language to be more accurate.What is to be learnt from Penang hokkien?It is because people don't know thier ancestor sect or school of correct minnan grammar,noun,verb,pronoun,adverb ,they came out with malay-english-mandarin,cantonese(like dating in cantonese) for it.Nothing to feel proud of when this was because of no proper education in minnan language unlike Taiwan.I cannot see what kind of education we need for speaking penang hokkien.People say malaysian speaking poor putonghua is because of no proper education in the text book but I go as far as saying no proper learning in minnan for knowing where is the nouns came from old texts,grammar problem ,etc.
I just found out that in sinchew daily ,there is a chiangchiu association in Malaka.There is why I heard malaccan speaking lu.

[hong]

Please don't wasting time to argue with me about how great it is about baba language.When we studying a proper course with those old qing dynasty minnan dict and gushu in university or amateur class in Taiwan and china,it is like listening to god.What can we sit in a class to learn from baba language?old chinese Grammar in minnan or what?
No body in malaysia and singapore are proud of manglish and singlish as far as I know.

[Sim]

>> Please don't wasting time to argue with me about how
>> great it is about baba language.

This is one of the most accurate things you've ever said on this forum Hong.

Cheers,
Sim.

[Niuc]

Andrew, I think it's a bit confusing about hu/tu/lu since in the introduction (page xi) in Douglas', it's mentioned that y (umlaut in the dictionary) is a feature of Cuanciu and Tang-ua*, yet it lists hu/tu/lu as Tang-ua*. There was a time when E-mng and its surrounding area were under Tang-ua* county. I think that the accent (lu/hu/tu) is spoken in villages that belonged to Tang-ua* county then but now are suburb area of E-mng. In most of places in Tang-ua* county then and also now, they are ly/hy/ty. Ours is derived and still considered as a Tang-ua* dialect.

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[hong]

Our friend wei wrote an article in Kwonghua daily today about poor hakka language in malaysia. 28/4/04 .He quotes from Zhouqinghai(minnan and mandarin expect from sing) about singaporean poor minnan .No phrase can be said without using eng and mandarin.Their vocabulary about minnan are poor just like many people in malaysia.
I see the only way to increase the standard of minnan in malaysia is the rich people in hokkien huikuan and its sub sects to give away minnan dict freely.By doing that ,all will have at least better vocabulary for eng educated and chinese educated will have knowledge about hanzi.Also they will know each of their own school rather than chuanchiu speaking chiangchiu as the case in Penang.
I see the people in muar speak the best minnan follow their ancestors but they just don't have enough knowledge in minnna proverb.
Did chiangchiu in penang also lack dz like people in southern taiwan?

[Andrew Yong]

We need more Hokkien programmes on radio and TV. The problem for Penangites is that even the Hokkien news is in the wrong dialect.

Yes, a dictionary would help, as would a basic understanding of the tones and romanisation. Ultimately, it would be great if people could write Hokkien in hanzi. Part of the problem is that in Malaysia it is a purely spoken dialect, with no written form.

[hong]

English educated will not understand minnan simbun because those 成語 in the news will be a problem(should be minnan special proverb instead in conversation). Minnan pronunciation for Intel,microsoft and western country leader names will also be a big problem.
This page will let us have idea what is minnan course about.
http://www.atps.ylc.edu.tw/92a-5taiwan.doc

[hong]

It is not that there have never been minnan education in malaysia and singapore and thailand,etc.we do have huikuan education in dialect to chant the old text in their own language.
In china people like Limkotong (genting group )chant the old texts in chuanchiu when he was in china 1920,30s.