Penang Hokkien
-
hong
Re: Penang Hokkien
the link i gave you for that fujianfangyanzhi cost 110.00 renminbi in bookshop which i think only rich guys and library will buy them since it is already online.
-
hong
Re: Penang Hokkien
To learn about putian and xianyou ,we need at least 10 hours of audio CD but we still don't have these .This is the same case for two kinds of fuzhou and fuqing.
In Malaysia ,look for xing an 兴安会馆 for henghua people association.
In Malaysia ,look for xing an 兴安会馆 for henghua people association.
-
Andrew Yong
Re: Penang Hokkien
hong wrote:
> It seems people in china say door as bui in chiangchiu ,bng in
> xiamen and chuanchiu but not mng and mui.I find that some
> malaysian minnan mistakenly say mian for the correct sound=
> bian 免(no).It is a sound from mandarin if I am not wrong.
> There is online article by chinfa lien about denasalization for
> m become b,g,l etc in minnan compare to mandarin but no good
> answer for it.
I have never heard of people saying bui~ and bng. Of course the literary pronunciation is bun.
Mian is supposed to be m-bian. At least that is what I remember from Taiwanese texts. I am not sure if it is grammatical. Douglas gives 'm, bien' as Chuanchiu for no need/no thank you.
andrew
> It seems people in china say door as bui in chiangchiu ,bng in
> xiamen and chuanchiu but not mng and mui.I find that some
> malaysian minnan mistakenly say mian for the correct sound=
> bian 免(no).It is a sound from mandarin if I am not wrong.
> There is online article by chinfa lien about denasalization for
> m become b,g,l etc in minnan compare to mandarin but no good
> answer for it.
I have never heard of people saying bui~ and bng. Of course the literary pronunciation is bun.
Mian is supposed to be m-bian. At least that is what I remember from Taiwanese texts. I am not sure if it is grammatical. Douglas gives 'm, bien' as Chuanchiu for no need/no thank you.
andrew
-
Sim
Re: Penang Hokkien
Hi people,
I didn't want to start a new topic for this minor request, so I just stuck it in under Penang Hokkien.
Could anyone volunteer to enter here the (possible/probably) Chinese characters for my grandparents' names. My grandfather's name was Lee Seng Kooi, and my grandmother's name was Tan Cheng Beow.
The surnames Lee and Tan are of course clear, but the personal names are what I'm after.
Of course, as we all know, Chinese words with the same pronunciation can be written with many different characters. However, in this case, these are personal names, which are a (much) more limited set of words. Further, my ancestors were not particularly literate in Chinese (not at all, in fact), so the names they chose were from the usual pool of common ones: Beng, Eng, Guat, Hock, Hua, Kim, Leng, Leong, Swee, Teik, etc.
Kooi is certainly quite a common Hokkien name in Penang - I had one male cousin and a schoolmate, both called Ah Kooi. For my grandmother's name, I think that Cheng was "thousand" (so should strictly speaking have been spelled Chheng) .
Thanks in advance, in any case.
Sim.
[%sig%]
I didn't want to start a new topic for this minor request, so I just stuck it in under Penang Hokkien.
Could anyone volunteer to enter here the (possible/probably) Chinese characters for my grandparents' names. My grandfather's name was Lee Seng Kooi, and my grandmother's name was Tan Cheng Beow.
The surnames Lee and Tan are of course clear, but the personal names are what I'm after.
Of course, as we all know, Chinese words with the same pronunciation can be written with many different characters. However, in this case, these are personal names, which are a (much) more limited set of words. Further, my ancestors were not particularly literate in Chinese (not at all, in fact), so the names they chose were from the usual pool of common ones: Beng, Eng, Guat, Hock, Hua, Kim, Leng, Leong, Swee, Teik, etc.
Kooi is certainly quite a common Hokkien name in Penang - I had one male cousin and a schoolmate, both called Ah Kooi. For my grandmother's name, I think that Cheng was "thousand" (so should strictly speaking have been spelled Chheng) .
Thanks in advance, in any case.
Sim.
[%sig%]
-
Sim
Re: Penang Hokkien
Oops, knew I'd forget something!
If possible, I'd like to have the Mandarin pronunciation in pinyin too.
Thanks,
Sim.
[%sig%]
If possible, I'd like to have the Mandarin pronunciation in pinyin too.
Thanks,
Sim.
[%sig%]
-
hong
Re: Penang Hokkien
李成贵(cheng2 gui4) and 陈清( )I don't think anyone can give the name for the last word because it is not clear unless you let us know the actual sound.cheng is of couse the qing in qing dynasty.kooi is for the zi kui noble/valuable .
-
Tjandy
Re: Penang Hokkien
Sim,
I want to take a shot on this one....
If the middle Seng is Seng2, it is very possible that it is Cheng2 (my computer can't input Chinese Character) which translates to "becoming" in English. I know a lot of "Hokkien Lang2" with this Seng2 as middle name.
If the middle Seng is Seng3, then it can be Sheng4 which translates to too many to count.
Tjandy
I want to take a shot on this one....
If the middle Seng is Seng2, it is very possible that it is Cheng2 (my computer can't input Chinese Character) which translates to "becoming" in English. I know a lot of "Hokkien Lang2" with this Seng2 as middle name.
If the middle Seng is Seng3, then it can be Sheng4 which translates to too many to count.
Tjandy
-
Sim
Re: Penang Hokkien
Thank you both Hong and Tjandy.
Hong: you are correct when you say that it is very unclear how to pronounce "Beow" in Tan Cheng Beow.
I should have given the peh-oe-ji spellings for the names. Lee Seng Kooi is of course easy: "li1 seng3 kui3", and Tan Cheng Beow is "tan3 cheng3 biau3" (I'm giving what I think are the sandhi-tones).
Hope this "biau3" helps.
Once again, thanks!
Sim.
[%sig%]
Hong: you are correct when you say that it is very unclear how to pronounce "Beow" in Tan Cheng Beow.
I should have given the peh-oe-ji spellings for the names. Lee Seng Kooi is of course easy: "li1 seng3 kui3", and Tan Cheng Beow is "tan3 cheng3 biau3" (I'm giving what I think are the sandhi-tones).
Hope this "biau3" helps.
Once again, thanks!
Sim.
[%sig%]
-
hong
Re: Penang Hokkien
I don't think there is a biao which is suitable for a girl .标 is for mark/sign=ang-a-piau for the brand in the product.
彪 for a boy means strong body which is a popular name.
嫖,婊 for at least ten kinds combination for the meaning prostitute.
So I don't think naming a girl any kind of biao is suitable.
彪 for a boy means strong body which is a popular name.
嫖,婊 for at least ten kinds combination for the meaning prostitute.
So I don't think naming a girl any kind of biao is suitable.
-
Tang Loon Kong
Re: Penang Hokkien
Hi Ladies and Gentlemen
We must be clear that this is a forum and the main purpose of a forum would be to bounce off ideas from all participants, in order to enrich the body of knowledge.
Welcome to the forum, Mr Thandy from Medan.
This 'Hokkien' forum, I think is in danger of veering to a zone where we all lose perspectives because we become more motivated by the matters of the heart rather than the mind. From what I have observed, many comments were very judgmental on one end, and on the other 'slap-stick'.
We need to take this forum, at the very least to an intellectual level to suggest informed possibilities and offer reasons for the interesting topic of "Hokkiens' or for that matter "Penang Hokkien". If there are other explanations for opposing views, the reasons, not arbitary judgments, must be presented.
Again, the fact of Hokkien words going into the Malay vocabulary was explained. I am stressing this quite clearly because not only I know that Malay words like 'ibu' and 'ayah' are very similar if not exactly with Chinese (Hokkien). I got wind of this fact by watching very old Chinese dynastic movies. In Chinese, the word for mother is e-mu (e-bu if converted to Hokkien), and the word for father is a-yeh (a-iah if converted to Hokkien). And Penang Hokkiens are part of the Hokkien dialect too, are they not?From here, it not improbable to say that the orgin of the words came from Hokkien because of the 'bu' instead of the 'mu'. If you ask for proof, then I cannot get them, even for a million years, because as I had explained earlier on, everything is gone, and do not hope to find much in China, because of official indifference and circumstances that are beyond control.
From my understanding of Chinese history, much of the Hokkien records could have followed Hokkiens fleeing the Manchu invasion when the Ming empire fell. The last seat of the Ming (Southern) empire was in Fujian, and therefore, it is probable that fleeing Han Hokkiens would have taken much cultural 'valuables' to nearby islands or other countries by ocean-going junks since the land routes were already blocked by the Manchus. Therefore, research about Hokkiens in China many not result in anything substantial (looking in China or post-Ming Chinese literature may not yield anything meaningful). However, research could be done by looking at the overseas Hokkiens communities, and there the communities and societies that support their existences, and subsequently their intractions. These records are not usually written, but are in the from of old languages and cultural practices.
There are many words that I have listed (mabok or mabuk is one of them), and 'mui' is one of them because it had stayed with the Amoynese's overseas descendents but changed in Amoy to become 'meng' instead.
So, ladies and gentlmen, the closeness of the Hokkien dialect and Malay Language (among the littoral states of the Malay Archipelago) is emphasized here in this forum. There is no intention to belittle any language here, other than to show their possible linkages to show how close the different languages are, in opposition to popular belief. In fact, I trying to reveal a strong bond of frienship and togetherness without which there would be no such linkages.
Again, I say that we in this forum should offer explation or reason for our assertions, but not unilateral judgements learned from official history that had basically formed our values through many years of schooling system. The main reason for this forum is not to overlord other views with official history (most of them centralized), but to enhance the understanding and acceptance of other views too.
To Mr Tjandy: I thought 'sabun' was French word, and now that you said 'sabun was used in Taiwan too, it deserves further looking into. What about the word 'suka' for like because I thought I heard this word spoken during a CCTV4 "Hokkien News" broadcast recently.
Let us all keep up the good work. Thanks for listening.
We must be clear that this is a forum and the main purpose of a forum would be to bounce off ideas from all participants, in order to enrich the body of knowledge.
Welcome to the forum, Mr Thandy from Medan.
This 'Hokkien' forum, I think is in danger of veering to a zone where we all lose perspectives because we become more motivated by the matters of the heart rather than the mind. From what I have observed, many comments were very judgmental on one end, and on the other 'slap-stick'.
We need to take this forum, at the very least to an intellectual level to suggest informed possibilities and offer reasons for the interesting topic of "Hokkiens' or for that matter "Penang Hokkien". If there are other explanations for opposing views, the reasons, not arbitary judgments, must be presented.
Again, the fact of Hokkien words going into the Malay vocabulary was explained. I am stressing this quite clearly because not only I know that Malay words like 'ibu' and 'ayah' are very similar if not exactly with Chinese (Hokkien). I got wind of this fact by watching very old Chinese dynastic movies. In Chinese, the word for mother is e-mu (e-bu if converted to Hokkien), and the word for father is a-yeh (a-iah if converted to Hokkien). And Penang Hokkiens are part of the Hokkien dialect too, are they not?From here, it not improbable to say that the orgin of the words came from Hokkien because of the 'bu' instead of the 'mu'. If you ask for proof, then I cannot get them, even for a million years, because as I had explained earlier on, everything is gone, and do not hope to find much in China, because of official indifference and circumstances that are beyond control.
From my understanding of Chinese history, much of the Hokkien records could have followed Hokkiens fleeing the Manchu invasion when the Ming empire fell. The last seat of the Ming (Southern) empire was in Fujian, and therefore, it is probable that fleeing Han Hokkiens would have taken much cultural 'valuables' to nearby islands or other countries by ocean-going junks since the land routes were already blocked by the Manchus. Therefore, research about Hokkiens in China many not result in anything substantial (looking in China or post-Ming Chinese literature may not yield anything meaningful). However, research could be done by looking at the overseas Hokkiens communities, and there the communities and societies that support their existences, and subsequently their intractions. These records are not usually written, but are in the from of old languages and cultural practices.
There are many words that I have listed (mabok or mabuk is one of them), and 'mui' is one of them because it had stayed with the Amoynese's overseas descendents but changed in Amoy to become 'meng' instead.
So, ladies and gentlmen, the closeness of the Hokkien dialect and Malay Language (among the littoral states of the Malay Archipelago) is emphasized here in this forum. There is no intention to belittle any language here, other than to show their possible linkages to show how close the different languages are, in opposition to popular belief. In fact, I trying to reveal a strong bond of frienship and togetherness without which there would be no such linkages.
Again, I say that we in this forum should offer explation or reason for our assertions, but not unilateral judgements learned from official history that had basically formed our values through many years of schooling system. The main reason for this forum is not to overlord other views with official history (most of them centralized), but to enhance the understanding and acceptance of other views too.
To Mr Tjandy: I thought 'sabun' was French word, and now that you said 'sabun was used in Taiwan too, it deserves further looking into. What about the word 'suka' for like because I thought I heard this word spoken during a CCTV4 "Hokkien News" broadcast recently.
Let us all keep up the good work. Thanks for listening.