>> It is very strange we don't have many xiamen people came to malaya
>> but so many people are saying lu for you,tu for pig which is another
>> wendu yin for xiamen besides li and tu.
>>
>> Who bring them in(chiangchiu)?
In my interviews with my father he told me what was recited by the priest at his father's funeral:
i.e.: "Hai Teng Kuan; Kim Sua~ Sia~; Ciang Ciu Hu."
This was supposed to be where my paternal grandfather's ancestors came from.
I presume "Ciang Ciu (Hu)" refers to "Zhangzhou". Could someone tell me what "Hu" means? Does it mean "district" perhaps, and what is the equivalent in Mandarin (pinyin and character)?
[ Also if anyone knows what the other two: "Hai Teng Kuan" and "Kim Sua~ Sia~" are, in pinyin and characters, I'd be very grateful as well. "Kim Sua~" sounds like "Gold Mountain" to me, but as we know, it could be other characters in Chinese. ]
Penang Hokkien
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Andrew Yong
Re: Penang Hokkien
hong wrote:
> It is not that penang hokkien as mentioned by andrew 3 and 7
> mixed up.See this
> bookhttp://www.tw15in.com.tw/cgi-bin/clip/clip.cgi
> It is very strange xiamen and chiang chiu are without 4 th tone
> compare to chuanchiu without 6th tone .I still cannot get
> enough books /articles for a complete understanding.I still
> cannot get the actual sound for chuanchiu word===si 死 which is
> a different pronunciation from chiangchiu and amoy.
> Only teochew has all 8 tones for all min languages.
I don't understand what you are saying. http://www.glossika.com/en/dict/tones/min.php/ shows that Xiamen has no 6th tone, as is the same with Chiangchiu, i.e. they have yin/yang Qu, but only one Shang. Chiangchiu shows |21| for 3rd and |22| for 7th, which are very close, except to a trained ear.
Chuanchiu has a 6th tone, but no 7th tone, i.e. it has yin/yang Shang, but only one Qu. Only a few dialects have 6 tones; most have 7 tones.
andrew
> It is not that penang hokkien as mentioned by andrew 3 and 7
> mixed up.See this
> bookhttp://www.tw15in.com.tw/cgi-bin/clip/clip.cgi
> It is very strange xiamen and chiang chiu are without 4 th tone
> compare to chuanchiu without 6th tone .I still cannot get
> enough books /articles for a complete understanding.I still
> cannot get the actual sound for chuanchiu word===si 死 which is
> a different pronunciation from chiangchiu and amoy.
> Only teochew has all 8 tones for all min languages.
I don't understand what you are saying. http://www.glossika.com/en/dict/tones/min.php/ shows that Xiamen has no 6th tone, as is the same with Chiangchiu, i.e. they have yin/yang Qu, but only one Shang. Chiangchiu shows |21| for 3rd and |22| for 7th, which are very close, except to a trained ear.
Chuanchiu has a 6th tone, but no 7th tone, i.e. it has yin/yang Shang, but only one Qu. Only a few dialects have 6 tones; most have 7 tones.
andrew
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hong
Re: Penang Hokkien
Dear Sim,
You are a chiangchiu ,hu is fu3 府(prefecture) like the word goverment 政府zhengfu(a japanese word).海澄= hai cheng (maybe is town now)mostly I saw in newspapers as longhaihaicheng 龙海海澄.kuan is chiangchiu for xian 县 is also meaning prefectual.It could be kuan in chiangchiu but in chuanchiu and xiamen is kuainn7 .hian is the wendu.
sia is 城 just like the second word in penang .I don't know whioch word should be for the word ping 槟
so we write complete as zhangzhou ,haicheng area ,follow by kimsua sia(town) .Sia in here means small town but not big city because big city in here is zhangzhou.
I don't know the small town of grandfather in nan an area anymore but some people still do as they did in newspapers death announcement.
(Hanzi is GB above.)
You are a chiangchiu ,hu is fu3 府(prefecture) like the word goverment 政府zhengfu(a japanese word).海澄= hai cheng (maybe is town now)mostly I saw in newspapers as longhaihaicheng 龙海海澄.kuan is chiangchiu for xian 县 is also meaning prefectual.It could be kuan in chiangchiu but in chuanchiu and xiamen is kuainn7 .hian is the wendu.
sia is 城 just like the second word in penang .I don't know whioch word should be for the word ping 槟
so we write complete as zhangzhou ,haicheng area ,follow by kimsua sia(town) .Sia in here means small town but not big city because big city in here is zhangzhou.
I don't know the small town of grandfather in nan an area anymore but some people still do as they did in newspapers death announcement.
(Hanzi is GB above.)
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hong
Re: Penang Hokkien
Andrew,it is the same if you read as it is but doesn't bother about 1a 1b 2a 2b .The only correct way is to say in hanzi but not this kind of figure.The chart in glossika are not right because we have yinshang 554 in quanzhou city and nanan.Not clear like zhangbu is 323 for yangping .he shouldn't just write 4 zhangzhou
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Sim
Re: Penang Hokkien
Hi Hong,
Thanks very much for this information. I appreciate it very much.
Best regards,
Sim.
Thanks very much for this information. I appreciate it very much.
Best regards,
Sim.
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Tang Loon Kong
Re: Penang Hokkien
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Lu Lang Ho!
Tjiak Pah Ah Boey!
I am now who is living in Shanghai. And I can understand a little Shanghainese dialect because there are until now that I have discovered, some similar words with exactly the same meanings. talking about the pervasiveness of the dialect.
Coming back to the word "sukak" or "suka" which I tried discussing at great lengths previously. I also remember another word "kam kak" which which means efficient or working very compatibly.
Can some check on these two words, and see if they are connected at all? Maybe 'suks' and "kamkak' are two Hokkien phrases that are part of a collection of phrases that have ". . . kak" at the ends.
My paternal grandfather came from Kim Mui or Quemoy which is on the Taiwan side, just opposite Xiamen (Amoy). In fact you can see Quemoy from Xiamen, and there are tourists fun boat rides that bring people near to Quemoy. So those who speaks 'lu' for you may have also come from Quemoy and other surrounding islands, not necessarily only Amoy. Remeber the ". . . moy".
Keep it up ladies and Gentlemen.
Thanks
Tang Loon Kong
Shanghai, China
Lu Lang Ho!
Tjiak Pah Ah Boey!
I am now who is living in Shanghai. And I can understand a little Shanghainese dialect because there are until now that I have discovered, some similar words with exactly the same meanings. talking about the pervasiveness of the dialect.
Coming back to the word "sukak" or "suka" which I tried discussing at great lengths previously. I also remember another word "kam kak" which which means efficient or working very compatibly.
Can some check on these two words, and see if they are connected at all? Maybe 'suks' and "kamkak' are two Hokkien phrases that are part of a collection of phrases that have ". . . kak" at the ends.
My paternal grandfather came from Kim Mui or Quemoy which is on the Taiwan side, just opposite Xiamen (Amoy). In fact you can see Quemoy from Xiamen, and there are tourists fun boat rides that bring people near to Quemoy. So those who speaks 'lu' for you may have also come from Quemoy and other surrounding islands, not necessarily only Amoy. Remeber the ". . . moy".
Keep it up ladies and Gentlemen.
Thanks
Tang Loon Kong
Shanghai, China
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hong
Re: Penang Hokkien
感觉 kam2kak4 is feel as a verb.It has nothing do with suka from sanskrit /malay.Go to dict to check is there is a suka as minnan as like.I cannot do anything if you are lazy to read dict.
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Tang Loon Kong
Re: Penang Hokkien
Hi Hong
As I have said before, some of us are very judgemental. This forum needs clarity and a discussive atmosphere. I understand some participants have been hemmed in by their values. It is time to do some research to judge whether these values are reasonable.
When I said "kamkak" it means that person is very efficient and effective, and work very compatibly with others, and not anything else like "feeling". You go and ask any Penangite who speaks the language, and find out what "kamkak" or "gamkak" means.
Than you have to decide to add one more meaning to the dictionary that Hong were so dyingly telling me to refer to. Here I am not saying that my version of "kamkak" or "gamkak" is supreme, it merely gives another meaning to almost the word of the same pronunciation which the dictionary has obviously missed. Do not overly depend on the dictionary - it is man-made, and quite obviously not infallible just like man.
Anyway, thanks to Hong, I can now further reinforce the argument for the word "sukak" since he has brought out his meaning of "kamkak". Both his 'kamkak" and my "sukak" seem to belong to the same family of those words with " . . . kak" which are in the 'feeling' group. We need to find out more about the ". . . kak" words.
The problem with such dictionaries, I think, is that it seeks validation of the Hokkien word through the use of Chinese becasue it needs a written form. It is quite possible, hence that if there is no equivalent Chinese word for the Hokkien word, then the dictionary would not have mentioned the Hokkien word at all, and that could explain the restrictiveness in its vocabulary, and innocently sending many ancient Hokkien words to the abyss of ignorance.
I remeber Eng Wai mentioning that some scholars did not like Hokkien because they saw them as polluting the purity of the Chinese language. And someone in the forum said that when the Manchurian took over China, they endeavoured for the northern tones to take over from the south, which meant Beijing became the cultural centre of China rather than Nanjing.
Hong, please tell where did the English word "peasant" come from? Does the dictionary that you refer to, tell anything?
Tang Loon Kong
Shanghai, China
As I have said before, some of us are very judgemental. This forum needs clarity and a discussive atmosphere. I understand some participants have been hemmed in by their values. It is time to do some research to judge whether these values are reasonable.
When I said "kamkak" it means that person is very efficient and effective, and work very compatibly with others, and not anything else like "feeling". You go and ask any Penangite who speaks the language, and find out what "kamkak" or "gamkak" means.
Than you have to decide to add one more meaning to the dictionary that Hong were so dyingly telling me to refer to. Here I am not saying that my version of "kamkak" or "gamkak" is supreme, it merely gives another meaning to almost the word of the same pronunciation which the dictionary has obviously missed. Do not overly depend on the dictionary - it is man-made, and quite obviously not infallible just like man.
Anyway, thanks to Hong, I can now further reinforce the argument for the word "sukak" since he has brought out his meaning of "kamkak". Both his 'kamkak" and my "sukak" seem to belong to the same family of those words with " . . . kak" which are in the 'feeling' group. We need to find out more about the ". . . kak" words.
The problem with such dictionaries, I think, is that it seeks validation of the Hokkien word through the use of Chinese becasue it needs a written form. It is quite possible, hence that if there is no equivalent Chinese word for the Hokkien word, then the dictionary would not have mentioned the Hokkien word at all, and that could explain the restrictiveness in its vocabulary, and innocently sending many ancient Hokkien words to the abyss of ignorance.
I remeber Eng Wai mentioning that some scholars did not like Hokkien because they saw them as polluting the purity of the Chinese language. And someone in the forum said that when the Manchurian took over China, they endeavoured for the northern tones to take over from the south, which meant Beijing became the cultural centre of China rather than Nanjing.
Hong, please tell where did the English word "peasant" come from? Does the dictionary that you refer to, tell anything?
Tang Loon Kong
Shanghai, China
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Tang Loon Kong
Re: Penang Hokkien
Ladies and Gentlemen
A little poem for the New Year! Happy New Year to One and All.
Sin Ni Ai Kaou
Hokkien Lang Ai Pian Gao,
Bo Gao Lang Cho Tao
Hokkien Lang Pian Kaouu
Tang Loon Kong
Shanghai, China
A little poem for the New Year! Happy New Year to One and All.
Sin Ni Ai Kaou
Hokkien Lang Ai Pian Gao,
Bo Gao Lang Cho Tao
Hokkien Lang Pian Kaouu
Tang Loon Kong
Shanghai, China
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Tang Loon Kong
Re: Penang Hokkien
Hi Hong
What about the Malay word "chuchok" or "cucok"? Where do you think it came from? I am sure it is not from Sanskrit.
Tang Loon Kong
Shanghai, China
What about the Malay word "chuchok" or "cucok"? Where do you think it came from? I am sure it is not from Sanskrit.
Tang Loon Kong
Shanghai, China