Rude people don't bother to reply !
Eng wai,
Penang hokkien is based on chang chou, how about klang hokkien, singapore hokkien ?
How many main types of hokkien (MIN NAN only) are there in malaysia ?
I know:
1. Penang hokkien - Chang chou
2. Klang hokkien
3. Teo Chiu - Chao Chou
Any others ?
Malaysian Hokkien
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Eng Wai
Re: Malaysian Hokkien
I hope I could help with my limited amateur linguistic knowledge on Minnan.
Currently it is widely regarded that Min language can be divided into 5 big groups: Min bei, Min Zhong, Min nan, Pu-xian and Min dong.
Minnan is inclusive of Hokkien, Teow Chiu, Hainnanese; and Hokkien encompasses 3 dialects: E-mng (xia4 men2), Chiang Chiu (zhang1 zhou1) & Chuan Chiu (quan2 zhou1). While Malaysian Hokkiens are mainly Chuan Chiu, Penang Hokkien is the hybridisation of Chiang Chiu (dominant) and Chuan Chiu due to the early influx of Chiang Chiu Hokkien who subsequently control the economy of early Penang.
I know Hokkiens, Teow Chiu and Hainnanese sound so different, but this conclusion is achieved by the linguist. There must be solid reasons behind them since I haven't encountered any claim of other sorts. Min language is said to be the most complex Chinese language, not in the sense of learning difficulty, but branching and grouping wise. THe examples of Hokkiens, Teow Chiu and Hainnanese simply illustrate this...
Klang Hokkien, or in general, Malaysia Hokkien are Chuan Chiu Hokkien while Penang, or ingeneral northwest Malaysia (Kedah Perlis north Perak) Hokkiens are Penang Hokkien, or Chiang Chuan mix.
Hok Chew (Heng Hua etc) is Ming Dong. My dad is Heng Hua and I don't know how my grand dad ended up in Penang instead of Sarawak. Need to investigate more about family histories....
And lastly, you too don't brand people rude in this forum. We have had enough of verbal fightings already..
[%sig%]
Currently it is widely regarded that Min language can be divided into 5 big groups: Min bei, Min Zhong, Min nan, Pu-xian and Min dong.
Minnan is inclusive of Hokkien, Teow Chiu, Hainnanese; and Hokkien encompasses 3 dialects: E-mng (xia4 men2), Chiang Chiu (zhang1 zhou1) & Chuan Chiu (quan2 zhou1). While Malaysian Hokkiens are mainly Chuan Chiu, Penang Hokkien is the hybridisation of Chiang Chiu (dominant) and Chuan Chiu due to the early influx of Chiang Chiu Hokkien who subsequently control the economy of early Penang.
I know Hokkiens, Teow Chiu and Hainnanese sound so different, but this conclusion is achieved by the linguist. There must be solid reasons behind them since I haven't encountered any claim of other sorts. Min language is said to be the most complex Chinese language, not in the sense of learning difficulty, but branching and grouping wise. THe examples of Hokkiens, Teow Chiu and Hainnanese simply illustrate this...
Klang Hokkien, or in general, Malaysia Hokkien are Chuan Chiu Hokkien while Penang, or ingeneral northwest Malaysia (Kedah Perlis north Perak) Hokkiens are Penang Hokkien, or Chiang Chuan mix.
Hok Chew (Heng Hua etc) is Ming Dong. My dad is Heng Hua and I don't know how my grand dad ended up in Penang instead of Sarawak. Need to investigate more about family histories....
And lastly, you too don't brand people rude in this forum. We have had enough of verbal fightings already..
[%sig%]
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hong
Re: Malaysian Hokkien
Alex,
You say I am rude.I think you should ask yourself why you are so lazy to read.Just above in here there is a link from Prof.Chiu about Singapore minnan but you refuse to read.I am not interested to know how busy you are.
EngWai,
I read and listen to a recording and find that xianyou is more minnan-like but putian is more fuzhou-like.I don't know you are xianyou or putian because henghua means both.There are not many henghua in Sarawak.Even the fuzhou is only in one city but kuching is a city with minnan people
Y.B.Ng YenYen from Klang is henghua.
The current chairman of hokkien association(including minxi hakka in it) for whole malaysia is a datuk from henghua.
You say I am rude.I think you should ask yourself why you are so lazy to read.Just above in here there is a link from Prof.Chiu about Singapore minnan but you refuse to read.I am not interested to know how busy you are.
EngWai,
I read and listen to a recording and find that xianyou is more minnan-like but putian is more fuzhou-like.I don't know you are xianyou or putian because henghua means both.There are not many henghua in Sarawak.Even the fuzhou is only in one city but kuching is a city with minnan people
Y.B.Ng YenYen from Klang is henghua.
The current chairman of hokkien association(including minxi hakka in it) for whole malaysia is a datuk from henghua.
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Eng Wai
Re: Malaysian Hokkien
I don't know if I were a putian or xian you. I would have no attachment to this anyway since I can't even speak Heng Hua except the particular title I use to call my uncle (a pa, instead of a pek).
The associations in Malaysia are geographically defined, not linguistically defined. So you can see everyone who traces their ancestry to Hokkien Province in Hokkien association. Perhaps maybe one day it will shift to language association. wwho konws
People say that Hokkien speakers have rough speaking manners. But Heng Hua have even ruogher speaking pattern. My dad sounds very rude when speaking (quite ruder than ordinary Hokkiens), even he intends to be polite. When my father side relatives are together, they sound like arguing even they are not. When I first came to England and met someone from Singpore, she immediately recognised me as a Hokkien. Apparently I inherited the manner of Heng Hua...
The associations in Malaysia are geographically defined, not linguistically defined. So you can see everyone who traces their ancestry to Hokkien Province in Hokkien association. Perhaps maybe one day it will shift to language association. wwho konws
People say that Hokkien speakers have rough speaking manners. But Heng Hua have even ruogher speaking pattern. My dad sounds very rude when speaking (quite ruder than ordinary Hokkiens), even he intends to be polite. When my father side relatives are together, they sound like arguing even they are not. When I first came to England and met someone from Singpore, she immediately recognised me as a Hokkien. Apparently I inherited the manner of Heng Hua...
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hong
Re: Malaysian Hokkien
No,we do have mainly linguistically huikuan into minor details.Like hui an association has north and south in Penang.
In Sitiawan,Perak we have fuqing and gutian huikuan besides fuzhou.There are 7 sects of fuzhou languages in detail.
For teochew ,we have puning besides the normal teochew huikuan(called Hanjiang).5 teochew sects in detail
The so called hokkien huikuan is only stated having a headquater in Kuala Lumpur last year.Before that minxi hakka is not counted as hokkien.It is included into cantonese in Penang if I am not wrong
In Sitiawan,Perak we have fuqing and gutian huikuan besides fuzhou.There are 7 sects of fuzhou languages in detail.
For teochew ,we have puning besides the normal teochew huikuan(called Hanjiang).5 teochew sects in detail
The so called hokkien huikuan is only stated having a headquater in Kuala Lumpur last year.Before that minxi hakka is not counted as hokkien.It is included into cantonese in Penang if I am not wrong
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hong
Re: Malaysian Hokkien
I must add that what you said hokkien speakers have rough manners is mainly in Fuzhou.I have heard a lot of fuzhou conversation and find it worse than cantonese with dirty words in it.I think it is because of their strange tone sandhi.
As for minnan I think china's chiangchiu and xiamen are not elegant compare to cuanchiu sects.I had heard a buddhist monk conversation from Anxi and find it nicer than xia,taiwan and chiang.They say chiangchiu tone are too low .Chuangchiu setc have higher and lighter tone especially Anzi.
The first time I heard a nice minnan sound is from my cousin's girlfriend who is from Singapore(Jinjiang).It is so elegant .
As for minnan I think china's chiangchiu and xiamen are not elegant compare to cuanchiu sects.I had heard a buddhist monk conversation from Anxi and find it nicer than xia,taiwan and chiang.They say chiangchiu tone are too low .Chuangchiu setc have higher and lighter tone especially Anzi.
The first time I heard a nice minnan sound is from my cousin's girlfriend who is from Singapore(Jinjiang).It is so elegant .
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hong
Re: Malaysian Hokkien
I don't know how true it is about this infomation from a china's web page .That web site said Chiangchiu people outside China not including Taiwan are only 700000.
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Eng Wai
Re: Malaysian Hokkien
No, in my experience, Hokkien (excluding Fu Zhou Heng Hua etc) have a famous reputation of rough (both dirty and rude). My father and relatives haven't uttered swear words in front of me using Heng Hua, but comparing their way of speaking, the Heng Hua still appear ruders than the general Hokkiens. They speak loudly as if they are afraid no body is listening to them. My father and relatives also told me before that heng Hua have this reputation. I personnally has only one other Heng Hua friend from Kota Kinabalu. He is very arrogant at times but whether it is up to his own trait or due to his Heng Hua background, I can't conclude. Anyway, his mother tongue is Mandarin like me.
On the other hand, Cantonese are generally deemed as more elegant in contrary to Hokkiensm, Mandarin considered as the easiest to learn or master, and Hakka sounds strangest among the Chinese languages.
Anyway, all these perceptions are lots of times down to social background and personal affection. Hakka is strange because there are least Hakka compared to theo others; Cantonese are elegant because of the status of Hong Kong; Mandarin are easiest because there are many sources of learning Mandarin.
I have listened many people complaining Arabic language as harsh to ears (due to the common using of throat pronounciation, like German). But one day, when I heard from 1 Pakistani lady expressing her interest on learning Arabic because of its elegancy and lovely sound, I couldn't stop laughing in my heart. After all don't forget she is a Pakistani Muslim and Arabs do not give the world a positive image.
Eng Wai
[%sig%]
On the other hand, Cantonese are generally deemed as more elegant in contrary to Hokkiensm, Mandarin considered as the easiest to learn or master, and Hakka sounds strangest among the Chinese languages.
Anyway, all these perceptions are lots of times down to social background and personal affection. Hakka is strange because there are least Hakka compared to theo others; Cantonese are elegant because of the status of Hong Kong; Mandarin are easiest because there are many sources of learning Mandarin.
I have listened many people complaining Arabic language as harsh to ears (due to the common using of throat pronounciation, like German). But one day, when I heard from 1 Pakistani lady expressing her interest on learning Arabic because of its elegancy and lovely sound, I couldn't stop laughing in my heart. After all don't forget she is a Pakistani Muslim and Arabs do not give the world a positive image.
Eng Wai
[%sig%]
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AlexNg
Re: Malaysian Hokkien
Eng wai,
Both my parents are hing hua ! I don't agree with you that hing hua are ruder than min nan. Even though I speak mostly cantonese but I do understand the basics of hing hua.
I am going to group other groups other than min nan such as hok chia, hing hua, hok chiu as min bei for simplicity. Some linguists do group only 2 main min groups instead of 7 or 8.
In my opinion, the min nan dialects are spoken with a heavier tongue than the min bei dialects.
The min bei group usually is lighter (easier to speak) because they do not have as much words with ending sound of "k", "t" etc. such as uncle "ah pa" instead of "ah pek". Another example is "sia" instead of "chiak" for eat.
And sometimes they lose the "s" sound when combine with other words eg. "so lim" instead of "so sim" (third aunt).
Which confuses people greatly.
Both my parents are hing hua ! I don't agree with you that hing hua are ruder than min nan. Even though I speak mostly cantonese but I do understand the basics of hing hua.
I am going to group other groups other than min nan such as hok chia, hing hua, hok chiu as min bei for simplicity. Some linguists do group only 2 main min groups instead of 7 or 8.
In my opinion, the min nan dialects are spoken with a heavier tongue than the min bei dialects.
The min bei group usually is lighter (easier to speak) because they do not have as much words with ending sound of "k", "t" etc. such as uncle "ah pa" instead of "ah pek". Another example is "sia" instead of "chiak" for eat.
And sometimes they lose the "s" sound when combine with other words eg. "so lim" instead of "so sim" (third aunt).
Which confuses people greatly.
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hong
Re: Malaysian Hokkien
Fuzhou is harder because of their sandhi which involves change of consonant.Fuqing bookhttp://www.fjql.org/qxgj/a399.htm