Checking the Hanzi for some basic Hokkien words

[Mark Yong]

Just checking some Hanzi for basic Hokkien words before I finalise them in my personal Minnan dictionary:

引 - lang4 (to entice, to seduce)
扑 - hud7 (to hit, to strike)
鐳 - lui7 (money - my dictionary defines it as "copper coins")
寵 - seng4 (to spoil a child)
攝 - hib7 (to take a photograph)
與 - ho4 (to give)
隨/遂 - toi7 (to follow)
嚷 - jiang2 (to shout/yell)

Can anyone help me with the Hanzi for the following?

"gia5" (to take)
"an5" (tight)
"leng4" (loose) - is it 零, as used in the context of "零件"?

I notic that Minnan makes a distinction between "smoke" (ean7) and "tobacco" (hun7) that modern Mandarin and Yue does not. Could it be a historic convergence of 煙 and 菸 in Mandarin and Yue, with the different pronunciations now preserved in Min?

[niuc]

lang7 (to entice) should be 弄
beside 與，ho`7 may be 予
gia8 = 舉
an5 -> usually written as 緊
ling7 = 冗 in 廈門方言詞典

[Guest]

Hi, Nuic,

Thanks for the Hanzi. Got a few questions, though:

gia8 = 舉 - Any possibility that it could be 挈 instead? Reason I am asking is because it seems phonetically closer (both have the same meaning of "lifting up", as per Kangxi 扛也. Another thing is that in the Hakka dialect, "to take" is giam (rising tone), so my suspicion is that the two words 'giam' and 'gia' could be a common Hanzi, with the final -m disappearing in the Min variant.

an5 -> usually written as 緊 - I thought 緊 was kin1 (fast, urgent) in Minnan. One dictionary I read writes it as 恆 or 恒 (both are forms of the same word heng2 in Mandarin, i.e. to be constant, continuing, persevering).

ling7 = 冗 in 廈門方言詞典 - Wow, quite a difference in definition. Kangxi defines 冗 as 散也又雜也. I have often heard my martial arts instructor use the word "sang" (middle tone) 鬆.

But anyway, I am not an expert on this, so what I have above is very much open to corrections!

Is the Hanzi for ch'ue7 (to search) 搜?

[Mark Yong]

By the way - that was me in the post above, appeared as "guest" as I forgot to login!

Cheers,
Mark

[Guest]

...
扑 - hud7 (to hit, to strike)
...
攝 - hib7 (to take a photograph)
...

Hi Mark,

May I ask why you write your final stops as voiced stops rather than as unvoiced ones? Most of the usual conventions for writing Hokkien would use hut7 and hip7 for the above examples...

Thanks,
Sim.

[Mark Yong]

...
扑 - hud7 (to hit, to strike)
...
攝 - hib7 (to take a photograph)
...

Hi Mark,

May I ask why you write your final stops as voiced stops rather than as unvoiced ones? Most of the usual conventions for writing Hokkien would use hut7 and hip7 for the above examples...

Thanks,
Sim.

Hi, Sim,

No defence for that one, I am afraid. My mistake. Will endeavour to use the correct -p endings in future. Thanks for pointing that out!

On the same topic, could you provide some examples on when the voiced stop -b occurs? Thanks.

Regards,
Mark

[Guest]

On the same topic, could you provide some examples on when the voiced stop -b occurs? Thanks.

Hi Mark,

If you mean -p , then this is my limited list of words ending in -p.

jip8 : to enter
cap8 : ten
liap8 : noun classifier for round objects

thap4 : indented / to protrude inwards
kap4 : pigeon; to cover oneself with a blanket
chap4 : to pay heed to (mai1 chap4 i1 = ignore him)
ciap4 : to join to ends together; juice/sap (of a tree or fruit)
siap4 : astringent taste

In Hokkien, the final stops are always unvoiced, so there is only -p, -t, -k, and -h. The voiced stops (which do exist in Hokkien) are only initial b-, d-, and g-, but the d- is marginal, because some variants of Hokkien realise it as j- (jip8 'to enter', juah8 'hot', jin4 'to recognize', rather than dip8, duah8, din4).

Regards,
Sim.

[hong]

Many hanzi above are wrong but I can't type out the hanzi using any chinese input.
an is not 緊.It is given by Prof Ma from ciangchiu dict written in qing period.That book is out of print from Taiwan since 1993.
寵doesn't has the sound of seng but it is this one 恿
chong is used in here 寵愛thiong-ai.失寵sit-thiong.

[Mark Yong]

Many hanzi above are wrong but I can't type out the hanzi using any chinese input.
an is not 緊.It is given by Prof Ma from ciangchiu dict written in qing period.That book is out of print from Taiwan since 1993.

I understand your constraints. Have you tried the Chinese (Taiwan) setting in Windows XP, and trying to write out the characters using the drawing pad (pattern recognition)? I find that the Taiwan setting has the largest stock of characters among all the Chinese settings available in Windows XP.

The other thing you could do is describe to us what the component radicals of the words are (e.g. 人字旁,右上"X", 右下"Y", etc.), something like that... and we try to work it out manually.

[hong]

Mark,
For what we have go through that.If you are interested,just spend money to buy all those books.I have tried that but it works in my pc but it won't when I posted in here.
I don't know it is you who mentioned tua as a meaning of during added before verb.It is wrong for malaysian to use it.It carries the meaning of tua staying only not the function of ti in xianmen and chiangchiu.chuanchiu has another sound .