Chinese writing system

[alefbet]

Yes, it represents 55 meanings, that’s why a tone indicator is added. I don’t understand the complexity of homophones, would you please explain it to me?

The point of adding indicators or radicals is to eliminate/reduce homonyms found in romanization schemes. The elimination/reduction method itself isn’t important. Whatever the method is, if the number of homonyms is significantly reduced, it works.

The poem composed entirely of “shi” shown by Dylan Sung at the link above shows the deficiency of romanization schemes. But Chinese really needs to be phonetized, this is the Age of Information, learners are very important.

I don’t think it’s ugly, BTW. If you look at them a thousand times, you’ll get accustomed to them

It should look like this:

[Guest]

Yes, it represents 55 meanings, that’s why a tone indicator is added. I don’t understand the complexity of homophones, would you please explain it to me?

If newly invented indicators can really work, how many indicators you need to distinguish 55 meanings of "di"?

[alefbet]

First, "di" doesn't represent 55 meanings because there are tones.

It's not newly invented indicators. The radicals used are the same old radicals used in Chinese pictograms. So are the tonal indicators.

As I've said before, not all homonyms can be eliminated. Read the first to fourth posts above.

BTW, no one has answered my question about how to make chinese font.

[Guest]

BTW, no one has answered my question about how to make chinese font.

Yes, you basically have to draw/encode each character. Most of the characters can be composed of basic elements.

Making a Chinese font does not differ from making a font for any other language.

Thomas

[Guest]

>the Chinese writing system ?

the Chinese writing systems are include 4 kinds:

1. the Oracle and bone writing system 甲骨 文

2. the Ancient classic writing system 古 文

3. the Literature-language writing system 文言 文

4. the Spoken-language writing system 白話 文

a. the Mandarin Spoken-language writing system 官話 白話 文 (Guoyu 國語, Hanyu 漢語 or Huayu 華語)

b. the Wu Spoken-language writing system 吳語 白話 文

c. the Hokkien Spoken-language writing system 福建話 白話 文

d. the Cantonese Spoken-language writing system 廣東話 白話 文

e. the Hakka Spoken-language writing system 客家話 白話 文

etc., .....

[Guest]

old term. 中文 Chinese
new term. 漢語 Chinese

old term. 官話 白話文 Mandarin spoken-language writing system
new term. 漢語 (Hanyu) Mandarin spoken-language writing system

old term. 古文 The Ancient Classic Writing system
new term. 上古漢語 Ancient Hanyu (Ancient Mandarin)

old term. 文言 文 The Literature-language writing system
new term. 中古漢語 Middle Hanyu (Middle Mandarin)

old term. 官話 Mandarin language
new term. 普通話 (Putonghua) Mandarin language

old term. 晉語 Jin language
new term. 晉 方言 Jin dialect

old term. 吳語 Wu language
new term. 吳 方言 Wu dialect

old term. 徽語 Hui language
new term. 徽 方言 Hui dialect

old term. 湘語 Xiang language
new term. 湘 方言 Xiang dialect

old term. 客家話 Hakka language
new term. 客家 方言 Hakka dialect

old term. 廣東話 Cantonese language
new term. 粵 方言 Yue dialect

old term. 福建話 Hokkien language
new term. 閩 方言 Min dialect

old term. 方塊字 (square character) Chinese character
new term. 漢字 (Hanzi) Chinese character

The old terms used before 1950s, and the new terms which designed after the 1950s by the Mandarin speaking scholars.

The old term "中文 Chinese" was instead of the new term "漢語 (Hanyu) Chinese", and the old term "官話 白話文 Mandarin spoken-language writing system" was equal to the new term "漢語 (Hanyu) Mandarin spoken-language writing system", then the "Chinese" is indicate the Mandarin.

The old term "古文 The Ancient Classic Writing system" was based on some oral languages of "商 Shang speaking people". They was not relate to Modern Mandarin. But the new term "上古漢語 Ancient Hanyu (Ancient Mandarin)" made the Classic Chinese as an Ancient Mandarin.

The old term "文言 文 The Literature-language writing system" was based on the oral language of "Chin kingdom 秦國". But the new term "中古漢語 Middle Hanyu (Middle Mandarin)" made the Literary Chinese as an Middle Mandarin.

In these old terms all the languages, as Mandarin, Jin, Wu, Hui, Xiang, Hakka, Cantonese, Hokkien, they all are the "Sister Language". But in the new terms all the languages, as Jin, Wu, Hui, Xiang, Hakka, Cantonese, Hokkien, they all become a "Dialect of the Mandarin Language" (Hanyu fangyan).

In the old term "方塊字 (square character) Chinese character", it means an open concept of Chinese character, the Classic Chinese, Literary Chinese, Mandarin, Jin, Wu, Hui, Xiang, Hakka, Cantonese, Hokkien, all the languages share a same "Character System". But the new term "漢字 (Hanzi) Chinese character", it means this "Chinese character 漢字 (Hanzi)" is belong to the Mandarin language (Hanyu).

[Dylan Sung]

old term. 中文 Chinese
new term. 漢語 Chinese

old term. 官話 白話文 Mandarin spoken-language writing system
new term. 漢語 (Hanyu) Mandarin spoken-language writing system

Hanyu is "Chinese" plain and simple. It can refer to Mandarin as a modern sense of it being the national language of China, but not in the linguistics sense of "Hanyu", that is the name of a family of Chinese languages embracing Mandarin, Wu, Hakka, Min, Xiang, Gan, Yue etc......

old term. 古文 The Ancient Classic Writing system
new term. 上古漢語 Ancient Hanyu (Ancient Mandarin)

Shanggu Hanyu = Old Chinese

old term. 文言 文 The Literature-language writing system
new term. 中古漢語 Middle Hanyu (Middle Mandarin)

Zhonggu Hanyu = Middle Chinese

old term. 官話 Mandarin language
new term. 普通話 (Putonghua) Mandarin language

Putonghua = The common language.

old term. 晉語 Jin language
new term. 晉 方言 Jin dialect

old term. 吳語 Wu language
new term. 吳 方言 Wu dialect

old term. 徽語 Hui language
new term. 徽 方言 Hui dialect

old term. 湘語 Xiang language
new term. 湘 方言 Xiang dialect

old term. 客家話 Hakka language
new term. 客家 方言 Hakka dialect

old term. 廣東話 Cantonese language
new term. 粵 方言 Yue dialect

old term. 福建話 Hokkien language
new term. 閩 方言 Min dialect

old term. 方塊字 (square character) Chinese character
new term. 漢字 (Hanzi) Chinese character

The old terms used before 1950s, and the new terms which designed after the 1950s by the Mandarin speaking scholars.

Actually it was to comply with the 'national language', which just happened to be Mandarin.

The old term "中文 Chinese" was instead of the new term "漢語 (Hanyu) Chinese", and the old term "官話 白話文 Mandarin spoken-language writing system" was equal to the new term "漢語 (Hanyu) Mandarin spoken-language writing system", then the "Chinese" is indicate the Mandarin.

Not in the linguistics sense as I mentioned above.

The old term "古文 The Ancient Classic Writing system" was based on some oral languages of "商 Shang speaking people". They was not relate to Modern Mandarin. But the new term "上古漢語 Ancient Hanyu (Ancient Mandarin)" made the Classic Chinese as an Ancient Mandarin.

Mandarin as a language dates back to the Yuan Dynasty. Shanggu Hanyu is a modern coining for a stage in Chinese language linguistics.

The old term "文言 文 The Literature-language writing system" was based on the oral language of "Chin kingdom 秦國". But the new term "中古漢語 Middle Hanyu (Middle Mandarin)" made the Literary Chinese as an Middle Mandarin.

Wrong again. Wenyenwen is not based upon Qin/Ch'in speech. It is literary Chinese modeled on the works of Confucious's time, but not actually the same.

In these old terms all the languages, as Mandarin, Jin, Wu, Hui, Xiang, Hakka, Cantonese, Hokkien, they all are the "Sister Language". But in the new terms all the languages, as Jin, Wu, Hui, Xiang, Hakka, Cantonese, Hokkien, they all become a "Dialect of the Mandarin Language" (Hanyu fangyan).

Wrong again, these are all separate distinct language groups within "Chinese" as the family name of languages. In other words they are Sinitic languages.

In the old term "方塊字 (square character) Chinese character", it means an open concept of Chinese character, the Classic Chinese, Literary Chinese, Mandarin, Jin, Wu, Hui, Xiang, Hakka, Cantonese, Hokkien, all the languages share a same "Character System". But the new term "漢字 (Hanzi) Chinese character", it means this "Chinese character 漢字 (Hanzi)" is belong to the Mandarin language (Hanyu).

[/quote]

Hanzi is "Chinese character", as Han is the ethnicity or identity of "Chinese". Hanzi 漢字 is kanji in Japan, hanja in Korea. They use the exact same characters to name the characters that came from China.


Dyl.

[Guest]

Anonymous wrote:
old term. 中文 Chinese
new term. 漢語 Chinese
old term. 官話 白話文 Mandarin spoken-language writing system
new term. 漢語 (Hanyu) Mandarin spoken-language writing system

Dylan Sung wrote:
>Hanyu is "Chinese" plain and simple. It can refer to Mandarin as a modern sense of it being the national language of China, but not in the linguistics sense of "Hanyu", that is the name of a family of Chinese languages embracing Mandarin, Wu, Hakka, Min, Xiang, Gan, Yue etc......

Now in Mainland, according to the official definition, the "Hanyu 漢語" (Han Language) means the "Mandarin Spoken-language Writing system on the
Beijing Phonetic System" as the National Language of China.

Dylan Sung wrote:
>but not in the linguistics sense of "Hanyu", that is the name of a family of Chinese languages embracing Mandarin, Wu, Hakka, Min, Xiang, Gan, Yue etc......

In the linguistics sense, the "name of a family of Chinese languages" that have an official long character term, "Hanyu-yuxi 漢語語系" not the name of "Hanyu 漢語 or the linguistic term, Hanyu-yuyan 漢語語言 (Han Language)".
The "Hanyu 漢語" (Han Language) in official definition is only mean the "Mandarin Spoken-language Writing system on the Beijing Phonetic System" and
the Wu, Hakka, Min, Xiang, Gan, Yue etc......, they all be definited as an dialect,
1. they have an official long character term, the "Hanyu Fangyan 漢語方言" and
2. the Wu, Hakka, Min, Xiang, Gan, Yue, they all have an official long character term as "Hanyu Wu Fangyan 漢語吳方言", "Hanyu Hakka Fangyan 漢語客家方言", "Hanyu Min Fangyan 漢語閩方言", "Hanyu Xiang Fangyan 漢語湘方言", "Hanyu Gan Fangyan 漢語贛方言", "Hanyu Yue Fangyan 漢語粵方言", etc......

Because the Wu, Hakka, Min, Xiang, Gan, Yue etc...... be definited as the dialects of "Hanyu (here means the Mandarin spoken-language writing system on "Beijing Phonetic System") in the 1950s, so there need a set of new terms to instead of the traditional terms.

old term
1.中文 Chinese (a pural term), it includes a set of "Sister Language" of "the family of Chinese languages (Hanyu-yuxi 漢語語系)".
2.官話 白話文 Mandarin spoken-language writing system
3.晉語 Jin language
4.吳語 Wu language
5.徽語 Hui language
6.湘語 Xiang language
7.客家話 Hakka language
8.廣東話 Cantonese language
9.福建話 Hokkien language
10.方塊字 (square character) Chinese character

new term
1.漢語 Hanyu or Chinese (a singular term), the "Han Language" (linguistic term, Hanyu-yuyan 漢語語言) and a set of its dialects.
2.漢語 Hanyu (Han language, it means the Mandarin spoken-language writing system on "Beijing Phonetic System")
3.漢語 晉方言 Jin dialect of Han Language
4.漢語 吳方言 Wu dialect of Han Language
5.漢語 徽方言 Hui dialect of Han Language
6.漢語 湘方言 Xiang dialect of Han Language
7.漢語 客家方言 Hakka dialect of Han Language
8.漢語 粵方言 Yue dialect of Han Language
9.漢語 閩方言 Min dialect of Han Language
10.漢字 Hanzi (Chinese character)

[Guest]

Anonymous wrote:

8.漢語 粵方言 Yue dialect of Han Language

The use of 粵 has always been very confusing. E.g. cars in Guangdong province carry this on their plates. There are many definitions for 粵 from a linguistic point of view, so I avoid using this term to indicate Cantonese, personally.

Regards

[Dylan Sung]

Anonymous wrote:
old term. 中文 Chinese
new term. 漢語 Chinese
old term. 官話 白話文 Mandarin spoken-language writing system
new term. 漢語 (Hanyu) Mandarin spoken-language writing system

Dylan Sung wrote:
>Hanyu is "Chinese" plain and simple. It can refer to Mandarin as a modern sense of it being the national language of China, but not in the linguistics sense of "Hanyu", that is the name of a family of Chinese languages embracing Mandarin, Wu, Hakka, Min, Xiang, Gan, Yue etc......

Now in Mainland, according to the official definition, the "Hanyu 漢語" (Han Language) means the "Mandarin Spoken-language Writing system on the
Beijing Phonetic System" as the National Language of China.

Dylan Sung wrote:
>but not in the linguistics sense of "Hanyu", that is the name of a family of Chinese languages embracing Mandarin, Wu, Hakka, Min, Xiang, Gan, Yue etc......

In the linguistics sense, the "name of a family of Chinese languages" that have an official long character term, "Hanyu-yuxi 漢語語系" not the name of "Hanyu 漢語 or the linguistic term, Hanyu-yuyan 漢語語言 (Han Language)".
The "Hanyu 漢語" (Han Language) in official definition is only mean the "Mandarin Spoken-language Writing system on the Beijing Phonetic System" and
the Wu, Hakka, Min, Xiang, Gan, Yue etc......, they all be definited as an dialect,
1. they have an official long character term, the "Hanyu Fangyan 漢語方言" and
2. the Wu, Hakka, Min, Xiang, Gan, Yue, they all have an official long character term as "Hanyu Wu Fangyan 漢語吳方言", "Hanyu Hakka Fangyan 漢語客家方言", "Hanyu Min Fangyan 漢語閩方言", "Hanyu Xiang Fangyan 漢語湘方言", "Hanyu Gan Fangyan 漢語贛方言", "Hanyu Yue Fangyan 漢語粵方言", etc......

Because the Wu, Hakka, Min, Xiang, Gan, Yue etc...... be definited as the dialects of "Hanyu (here means the Mandarin spoken-language writing system on "Beijing Phonetic System") in the 1950s, so there need a set of new terms to instead of the traditional terms.

old term
1.中文 Chinese (a pural term), it includes a set of "Sister Language" of "the family of Chinese languages (Hanyu-yuxi 漢語語系)".
2.官話 白話文 Mandarin spoken-language writing system
3.晉語 Jin language
4.吳語 Wu language
5.徽語 Hui language
6.湘語 Xiang language
7.客家話 Hakka language
8.廣東話 Cantonese language
9.福建話 Hokkien language
10.方塊字 (square character) Chinese character

new term
1.漢語 Hanyu or Chinese (a singular term), the "Han Language" (linguistic term, Hanyu-yuyan 漢語語言) and a set of its dialects.
2.漢語 Hanyu (Han language, it means the Mandarin spoken-language writing system on "Beijing Phonetic System")
3.漢語 晉方言 Jin dialect of Han Language
4.漢語 吳方言 Wu dialect of Han Language
5.漢語 徽方言 Hui dialect of Han Language
6.漢語 湘方言 Xiang dialect of Han Language
7.漢語 客家方言 Hakka dialect of Han Language
8.漢語 粵方言 Yue dialect of Han Language
9.漢語 閩方言 Min dialect of Han Language
10.漢字 Hanzi (Chinese character)

Chinese or "Sinitic" is a family of languages, of which Mandarin, Wu, Xiang, Gan, Min, Hakka, and Yue are separate languages.

Within the Mandarin language are sub dialects, like Beijing, Ji'nan, Xi'an, Taoyuan, Wuhan, and Chengdu dialects, as other Chinese languages have sub dialect.

I find you use of "Han" eccentric, especially when for list 1 to 9 you use "Han language", but for 10 (Hanzi) you use "Chinese character" instead. Why not "Han character?" Doesn't work very well, if you're not a speaker of Chinese.

I use "Chinese" in relation to any of the "Han" languages, and use it to refer to the linguistic family, Sinitic. "Language" on the other hand should be reserved as the grouping for "many dialects of the same language (Mandarin, Wu, etc)", and the within each language are dialects like Guangzhou, Taishan, Enping for Yue language dialects.

If you want to talk linguistics, and in English, I can recommend Jerry Norman's "Chinese", Cambridge University Press, 1988.


Dyl.