Another example of minnan/mindong/teochew own invention meaning for this hanzi 批=letter.phue1.This word is not mentioned as letter in every chinese dict.Prof.Li says it could be from 廣韻﹐批-示也。
I found this 尊稱人家的來信---來示敬悉
Hokkien grammar
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Casey
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hong
Prof.Li say it is pak8 for chiangchiu along with teochew and 雷州.Again it is not my invention and has nothing to do with me actually.I don't think he can make a mistake like that .
This had been mentioned by friends from china in another forum,young chiangchiu people lost k ending due to too much contact with xiamen.
This had been mentioned by friends from china in another forum,young chiangchiu people lost k ending due to too much contact with xiamen.
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Casey
Prof. Li may have his reasons. If "pak8"? (I think it is "pak4") is used in the Ciangciu area (greater Ciangciu, not Ciangciu City itself), I would think that it is Zhao-an or some part of Yun-Xiao he was referring to. In Ciangciu, "pat4" or "bat4" is used, I am sure.
However, there is no "right or wrong" problem here. It really depends on how people are using it.
However, there is no "right or wrong" problem here. It really depends on how people are using it.
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hong
I am sure the chiangchiu qing period dict did put it as k ending for this and 發 huak as well.The reason he puts pak8 is due to the benzi should be 別 or with 言as a radical. 別引申自八pak4,so he just put tone 8 for all min dialect although there is 4th tone for this word as well.
It is the problem of xiamen is too strong in last 150 years,chuan/chiang are under heavy pressure from their new sound.
Another greater change in Chiangchiu is n become ng .A lot of words in Chiangchiu are in fact ended with n compare to ng of xia/chuan.
It is the problem of xiamen is too strong in last 150 years,chuan/chiang are under heavy pressure from their new sound.
Another greater change in Chiangchiu is n become ng .A lot of words in Chiangchiu are in fact ended with n compare to ng of xia/chuan.
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Eng Wai
He is Bigger Than Me :)
?? I have never encountered such or similar sentence structure in my Hokkien. There must be a conjuction between tua (adjective) and gua (particle), which in my case is "kui".niuc wrote: 4. A 較 adj B -> 伊較大我 i1 kha4-tua7 gua0 [0=neutral tone]
Eng Wai
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Andrew
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Guest
Sim, you are most welcome. Actually I just tried to write down what comparison forms are used in my dialect. Thanks to Andrew for this topic.Sim wrote: Niuc: Thank you for a BRILLIANT exposition of the possible forms! A lot of them I recognise as being valid in my variant of Hokkien, although some - #7 and #8 - may not be ones I would actively use.
No worry at all!Sim wrote: The only one that sounds downright "wrong" (this is NOT a criticism Niuc, just a comment about my own variant), is #2.
Each dialect/variant has its own characteristics. So each of us (including Andrew, Casey, Hong, etc) may find certain forms unnatural.For superlative form we also use te2 (te7-it4 第一) and siong7 上. Cue3 最 is more for literary usage. Our sandhi form of te2 is also te5, similar as Sim's. Actually our sandhi form for tone 2 is not exactly tone 5, but closer - if not identical - to tone 2 in Mandarin. However if mapped to existing base tones, it should be tone 5. Tone 2 in Mandarin is similar to tone 5 in Hokkien but not identical. I think tone 5 in Hokkien is closer to tone 3 in Beijing Mandarin (with the raising end that usually lost in combination). However, from what I hear in SE Asia and Taiwanese TV, most people don't have the raising end for tone 3 in Mandarin so it become like tone 3 in Hokkien (at least my dialect). And tone 2 in Mandarin is pronounced as identical with tone 5 in Hokkien.
Hong mentioned that using of 過 for comparison may due to Cantonese influence. From what I know, people in my hometown didn't have much chance to interact with Cantonese speakers so the influence was unlikely.
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niuc
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hong
Niu,
Yes,I read that our weakness is in tone3 for mandarin with not enough rising.This is the same for taiwan.But we have to careful about mandarin sandhi for tone3 .
I already sent email to Prof.Chiu in Xiamen university about 過 to try my luck.If Prof.Chiu of Singapore know that 過is used in minnan like cantonese,he would have mentioned it rather than saying it is a bad influence from cantonese.
www.hxdb.com.cn/docc/v_news.asp?vid=23372
Chiangchiu dict project with cd and vcd.
This is part of the minnanfangyandacidian which I think will be keep on delaying for good.
Yes,I read that our weakness is in tone3 for mandarin with not enough rising.This is the same for taiwan.But we have to careful about mandarin sandhi for tone3 .
I already sent email to Prof.Chiu in Xiamen university about 過 to try my luck.If Prof.Chiu of Singapore know that 過is used in minnan like cantonese,he would have mentioned it rather than saying it is a bad influence from cantonese.
www.hxdb.com.cn/docc/v_news.asp?vid=23372
Chiangchiu dict project with cd and vcd.
This is part of the minnanfangyandacidian which I think will be keep on delaying for good.