Hong
You wrote: "Another greater change in Chiangchiu is n become ng .A lot of words in Chiangchiu are in fact ended with n compare to ng of xia/chuan."
Do you have any example? Thanks
Hokkien grammar
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hong
Casey,
Remember I asked you to download free pdf article from a taiwan web site.
www.baidu.com type 蕭藤村 then click the bottom for the first link to get more web pages.You will a 500 pages file with zhangxiaquan 。Go to page 35 for three sects of wendu ,you will find puan,puang,puan3 for 半
Sorry ,again I remember in wrong way,it should be wendu sound of chiangchiu ng become n curently???I also found china's people mention this.
I have to check Prof.Li's book.He did mention in a book I just bought two weeks ago.
Remember I asked you to download free pdf article from a taiwan web site.
www.baidu.com type 蕭藤村 then click the bottom for the first link to get more web pages.You will a 500 pages file with zhangxiaquan 。Go to page 35 for three sects of wendu ,you will find puan,puang,puan3 for 半
Sorry ,again I remember in wrong way,it should be wendu sound of chiangchiu ng become n curently???I also found china's people mention this.
I have to check Prof.Li's book.He did mention in a book I just bought two weeks ago.
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hong
casey,
My earlier post is correct.In 1997 book by Prof.Li fujianfangyan page 243 現代漳州話 n 韻尾合併到 ng 韻尾﹐是變異的。但是dz 保留則是穩固的。
To find out the which words 200 years ago is n in chiangchiu but ng in other schools,we have to read the first chiangchiu dict 1820 but it is out of print except zhangbu language dict by Medhurst from England 1840..I have no money to buy medhurst 's dict and the china's version is in 四庫全書。
I find that above web page put 發﹐拔as k ending.
My earlier post is correct.In 1997 book by Prof.Li fujianfangyan page 243 現代漳州話 n 韻尾合併到 ng 韻尾﹐是變異的。但是dz 保留則是穩固的。
To find out the which words 200 years ago is n in chiangchiu but ng in other schools,we have to read the first chiangchiu dict 1820 but it is out of print except zhangbu language dict by Medhurst from England 1840..I have no money to buy medhurst 's dict and the china's version is in 四庫全書。
I find that above web page put 發﹐拔as k ending.
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hong
Hi, Hong,
You may be correct about the Teochew influence on Hokkien words moving from -n and -ng. I know a Teochew friend whose name is 文珍. Her name is Romanised as Boon Tiang (compare this with Hokkien "Tin/Chin").
Another person I know whose name is 漢 has his name Romanised as Hang. I am not sure if he is a Teochew. He is the only person I know who pronounces 簡單 as "kan tua" (instead of kan tan). I know 單 by itself is usually pronounced in baidu (as in, for receipt/cheque/list), but it is normally pronouced in wendu when the word exists in a couplet. (I recall Hong and I having this discussion before about the circumstances in which words are pronouced in wendu or baidu).
I am aware that many Hokkien words with wendu -an become baidu -ua (e.g. 半, 盤, 線). I recall you mentioned several times about the ua-/uann endings, so I guess this is related.
Regards,
Mark
You may be correct about the Teochew influence on Hokkien words moving from -n and -ng. I know a Teochew friend whose name is 文珍. Her name is Romanised as Boon Tiang (compare this with Hokkien "Tin/Chin").
Another person I know whose name is 漢 has his name Romanised as Hang. I am not sure if he is a Teochew. He is the only person I know who pronounces 簡單 as "kan tua" (instead of kan tan). I know 單 by itself is usually pronounced in baidu (as in, for receipt/cheque/list), but it is normally pronouced in wendu when the word exists in a couplet. (I recall Hong and I having this discussion before about the circumstances in which words are pronouced in wendu or baidu).
I am aware that many Hokkien words with wendu -an become baidu -ua (e.g. 半, 盤, 線). I recall you mentioned several times about the ua-/uann endings, so I guess this is related.
Regards,
Mark
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Casey
Hong and Mark
The question about the transformation of "-n" to "-ng" in Ciangciu accent, I should think the reverse is true. Nowadays, I would say few Ciangciu people (if any) would use the pronunciation like tang2 for 陈 , or puang3 for 半 or tang2 for 等 . They are all being pronounced with "-n" ending. If we look back at the history of Ciangciu, it was formed from the contribution of lands from Cuanciu and Tiociu. So I do not doubt the influence of Tiociu over Ciangciu in conversation in the early days, but as Hong put it, the E-mng accent had been influencial in later development, that would make the trend of changing from "-ng" ending to "-n" ending rather than the reverse.
The question about the transformation of "-n" to "-ng" in Ciangciu accent, I should think the reverse is true. Nowadays, I would say few Ciangciu people (if any) would use the pronunciation like tang2 for 陈 , or puang3 for 半 or tang2 for 等 . They are all being pronounced with "-n" ending. If we look back at the history of Ciangciu, it was formed from the contribution of lands from Cuanciu and Tiociu. So I do not doubt the influence of Tiociu over Ciangciu in conversation in the early days, but as Hong put it, the E-mng accent had been influencial in later development, that would make the trend of changing from "-ng" ending to "-n" ending rather than the reverse.
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hong
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hong
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hong