Has anyone who speaks Penang Hokkien noticed that the terms for Mr. and Mrs. are used very infrequently? When was the last time anyone heard Mr. Tan addressed as "Tan sin-sEh" - and not "Mr. Tan" or "Ah Tan" 阿陳?
The Cantonese tend to use the term "sin sang" 先生 more often. My theory is that it is because Cantonese speakers have often been able to find the Cantonese pronunciations for non-Cantonese surnames, e.g. transposing the Minnan surname "Tan" 陳 into the Yue pronunciation "Chan" giving "Chan sin-sang", "Teoh" 張 into "Cheong", etc.
The converse is rarely true - it is no longer instinctive for, say, Mr. Aaron Kwok 郭 from Canton to be referred to by a Minnan speaker as "Koay/Kuek sin-sEh".
(As an aside, I have often wondered (and aloud, for that matter) if singer Jackie Cheong Hok Yau 張學友, who is known to non-Cantonese speakers as Zhang Xueyou, could be known by the Hokkien pronunciation of his name - Teoh Hak Eu. And before anyone knocks me for making fun of a celebrity's name, rest assured I am not joking.)
Coming back to my original topic... the Hokkien term for Mrs. is even rarer nowadays. In fact, I have to say I do not even know the Minnan term for it. I mean, I hear "official terms" like 'tai-tai' 太太 and 'hu-jin' 婦人 in the radio news, but those are not conversational terms of address. The only closest thing to 'Mrs.' I have heard is 'a-so' 嫂, but even that is not really an accurate term of address.
Miss or "sio cia" 小姐 appears to be used more regularly, though this is now commonly replaced by the Mandarin pronunciation, or simply "Miss" (sacriliege!).
Hello Sir, Hello Ma'am...
As an aside to the term "先生". I normally hear it as "sin sEh" in Penang Hokkien (usually when referring to a teacher, rather than Mr.), but have occasionally heard it as "sian si" in other variants of Hokkien.
This prompted a question: Does the word 先 have so many pronunciations (rather than the normal wendu/baidu couplet)? We already have 'sin' and 'sian' above, but let's not forget the 3rd one: seng (as in 頭先, 汝先行).
This prompted a question: Does the word 先 have so many pronunciations (rather than the normal wendu/baidu couplet)? We already have 'sin' and 'sian' above, but let's not forget the 3rd one: seng (as in 頭先, 汝先行).
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Sim
Hi Mark,Mark Yong wrote:...I normally hear it as "sin sEh" in Penang Hokkien (usually when referring to a teacher, rather than Mr.)...
I believe there is nasalization on the second syllable, so it should be "sin sE*/sEnn" (with no glottal stop ending). Perhaps you were influenced by the "traditional informal spelling" this time
.Sim.
P.S. Did you see my request for your email. There are some things I'd like to askyou off-line, and some stuff I'd like to send you as well.
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hong
先 baidu is sing1.wendu is sian1 .I find one dict put sin as baidu but what is the function for it,I don't know.
chuanxia is sian sinn1,chiang is sian senn1..We can say sian in light tone like 王先。Ong sian.
Taiwanese do say 倌 kuann1 for 女士﹐少奶奶﹐先生。They also say 先生娘for wife of their teacher and other people wife as well.醫生娘as well .
Prof.Ang did say 太太 is mandarin only .
It is interesting Prof.Chiu says 姑娘 means nun in catholic and 老處女。
In taiwanese tv you can hear minnan pronunciation for actors like 成龍﹐Many malaysians couldn't understand what is the local minnan news pronunciation for 梅艷芳。
chuanxia is sian sinn1,chiang is sian senn1..We can say sian in light tone like 王先。Ong sian.
Taiwanese do say 倌 kuann1 for 女士﹐少奶奶﹐先生。They also say 先生娘for wife of their teacher and other people wife as well.醫生娘as well .
Prof.Ang did say 太太 is mandarin only .
It is interesting Prof.Chiu says 姑娘 means nun in catholic and 老處女。
In taiwanese tv you can hear minnan pronunciation for actors like 成龍﹐Many malaysians couldn't understand what is the local minnan news pronunciation for 梅艷芳。
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Sim
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Casey
I am always puzzled about why the Minnan pronunciation of " 先 生 " sian1 si*1 (teacher) does not conform to only wendu or only baidu but half and half, one word using wendu the other using baidu. If we look at other terms involving these two words: 先 知 sian1 ti1 (prophet), 先 见 sian1 kian3 (prophet), 学 生 hak8 sing1 (student), 医 生 i1 sing1 (doctor), all in the form of wendu. Of course, if it is pronounced in baidu form as "sing1 si*1" it would mean "to be born first". But why is it not pronounced as "sian1 sing1" both words in the wendu form?
Does anyone know why or care to comment?
Does anyone know why or care to comment?
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hong
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hong
I don't have good old chinese dict but maybe 學生 is a new word started in song period ,so 學生 is wendu
先生 is a very old noun in books like 戰國策 or earlier。So baidu sin-sinn/senn for original meaning of teacher /有學問/士人 but one baidu only is for husband,doctor etc.In shanghai it means prostitute as well.
先生 is a very old noun in books like 戰國策 or earlier。So baidu sin-sinn/senn for original meaning of teacher /有學問/士人 but one baidu only is for husband,doctor etc.In shanghai it means prostitute as well.
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hong