The earliest Min Language ... ...

Eng Wai · Post by **Eng Wai** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:47 am

Hello all!

We know Min language is a historical Chinese language. While the exact time/dynasty which proto-Min has evolved into Min is still disputed, I would like to know which modern Min language resembles the Min language spoken in the wu3 dai4 shi2 guo2. In wu5 dai4 shi2 guo2 there was a small Min kingdom.

Do you know it?

Eng Wai

hong · Post by **hong** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:48 am

That kingdom may not be using fuzhou language as the common language because the king is from henan.As for which one is closer to modern min languages,I think everything is changed even for min language 200 years ago,not to mention 1200 years ago.

qrasy · Post by **qrasy** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:29 am

The differentiations of Hakka and Cantonese from Middle Chinese are said to be from Tang Dinasty.
Isn't Min earlier?

Eng Wai · Post by **Eng Wai** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 4:33 pm

@ qrasy

Cantonese and Min branched off the earlier than Hakka.

@ Hong

I agree with you that language is evolving and changing constantly but through academic studies, we can still have a guess on the original/earlier form.

I would like to know which modern Min language is closest to the min language spoken in the little Min kingdom.

Eng Wai

hong · Post by **hong** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:24 am

The capital is in fuzhou ,of course it is only fuzhou if the king use it as common language.The king doesn't speak this language.The kingdom is too short to have any impact on min language.

hong · Post by **hong** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:37 am

the word branch off didn't sound right.we should say min didn't change much while others keep on adding new consonant like f.
Reducing vowel into one group in 中原音韻

hong · Post by **hong** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:53 am

engwai,
you ask language spoken in the little min kingdom but this 閩國 is chuanchiu/chiangchiu/minbei as well .People speak their languages as usual after that king set up this kingdom.what so special about it???
There is no putian at that time if we are not wrong.For sure no xiamen.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:05 am

I have often heard that Min is very conservative, but the only example that most people give is the lack of initial /f/. Are there any other examples?

Tonally, Min doesn't seem to be as conservative as say Yue, nor does it keep its finals well. Also, Min initials seem to be less conservative than Wu.

hong · Post by **hong** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:20 pm

If you are talking abour mindong and other min languages which don't have p ,t,k anymore,it is correct they are changing a lot compare to yue.But minnan keep their entering tones as wel as yue.Many experts already said words like 文,微﹐尾 in cantonese is younger compare to minnan. mandarin is even younger for these kinds of words.
yue and hakka with f is a very big change,it is not a simple matter.
You are talking about wu 濁聲母 but they are without p,t,k which involves a lot words compare to minnan with a few of the old consonants missing .Overall minnan still retain more older elements compare to wu.
we have bh is teochew.

hong · Post by **hong** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:31 pm

I think we have to know not every dialect in china in 上古 period have every consonant we know of including cluster consonant if there are.Each dialect surely miss some during that period or else every language in each country in china is the same