nazalisation

Sim · Post by **Sim** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:04 am

Hi Niuc,

Nice to see you here too

.

I'm afraid I'm not contributing much to the Forum at the moment, but I still check it every day, and I'm sure I'll resume posting again on a regular basis in the future. These things come and go in waves.

Hi to all other Forum members too.

Take care,
Sim.

hong · Post by **hong** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:20 pm

There is an article in 1993 Min language conference about where is the nn came from but I still can't get that article.
The prove that nn is older in baidu.han 汗，寒 kuann 县 kuinn,kuainn 行 kiann.Above words wendu are all with consonant h like mandarin.Cantonese only has h consonant for it.
In 上古 chinese 见系(k)晓系(h) are the same.Only k for above words but later it have been changed to h only in all languages except min dialect.The nn sound in these words have a lot to do with 上古 language。This is my reply to Andrew's question as well.

qrasy · Post by **qrasy** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:35 pm

In my analysis the 'k-h' difference is usually at Yang category.
It means that in the Old Chinese 'g' is observed.
Old time 'b', 'g', 'd' has already been abandoned in most of Chinese languages, except Wu.

MinNan has new 'b' 'g' 'd' not matching the category, but transcribed as nasals in other Chinese languages.

qrasy · Post by **qrasy** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:46 pm

hong, please show me a pattern of -nn into -m, -n, -ng...

I believe that the -nn is kind of similar of lazy tongues like French.

I think -m, -n, -ng thymes into Tibetan better...

qrasy · Post by **qrasy** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:02 am

Just found some things

鳥 Niao~ and 毛 Mou~ seem more plausible to be old than 天 thi~ 山 sua~ 命 mia~ because nasalization is easier to drop than realised into -m -n -ng.

hong · Post by **hong** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:24 am

qrasy wrote:hong, please show me a pattern of -nn into -m, -n, -ng...

I believe that the -nn is kind of similar of lazy tongues like French.

I think -m, -n, -ng thymes into Tibetan better...

nobody knows for sure nn is earlier or later.反切 in middle chinese sometimes have a perfect spelling for it
聖式正切 baidu=s+iann wendu s+ing
良呂張切 baidu sound match both l +iunn/ionn
鼻 has no perfect 反切 selling for its sound phinn

qrasy · Post by **qrasy** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:09 am

Since nasalization is easier to drop, then the ones which don't have -m -n -ng in Middle Chinese should be old (or just confusion/outrule)

Does 好 have nasalization?

For those who have -m -n -ng in Middle Chinese .. it's like French who dropped all of the to be -~

hong · Post by **hong** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:48 pm

好with no nasal are used in most words but I know 好奇﹐好玄﹐好事像,好嫖﹐好chit,好淫﹐好勇﹐好酒﹐好事 and a few in minnan proverb must say it in honn sound.
王力 is one of the best scholars we have but even he doesn't sure are there any 鼻化元音 in middle /old chinese.王建設 proves there is with some texts

qrasy · Post by **qrasy** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:24 am

dismatching of rimes in old Chinese, isn't it? Do you have any links into that?

东风林凡 all once had the same ending 'consonant' (or 'special effect').

What is 好chit?

hong · Post by **hong** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:50 am

好玩=好 thit or 好 chhit or 好chhit-tho.most cuanchiu use thit-tho .buy every book by 王力 which will cost you a lot to know the answer.I don't even have the money to buy all his books 王力文集 yet.