There is an online cuanciu radio but it is no possible to connect it outside china properly.I think people in xmgb.com mix too much mandarin in their conversation.So many words they like to say it in mandarin.
The most interesting about Douglas is that 8th tone Yangru he recorded for xiamen language is 25 which is 4 currently.It could be 140 years ago xiamen speak rising yangru like all other sects except longhai . Maybe the people he interview was a guy just moving in from cuanciu/ciangciu.
Which nanan town you came from?Some are without ir/er from a long time ago.
where? here, there, everywhere...
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hong
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Itaq
I was not born in Nan-an, but my father came from there. However, he left there in his very early teens, so I think his pronunciation/accent has been rather watered down. He came from mei-shan zhen jing in Nan-an. Do you know whether ir/er sound is prevalent there? (can't seem to type the hanzi, though I have it set to Chinese on my language setting...don't know what's wrong....comes out as goobly gock numbers) Once, I had to make a phone call to Nan-an when my father was visiting our relatives there, I but didn't pay attention to their accent at the time.
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hong
Your sect 梅山 don't have ir/er compare to larger area of nanan which have this 央元音.Prof.李如龍 was born in this town in 1936.His mother was from 洪瀨 which has ir/er.The vocabulary is still cuanciu like no sai 使﹐not 講 but 說 seh. www.fjta.com/quanzhou/nananshi
ciangciu should be ta chit ui compare to xia/cuan to cit ui
Jinjiang =tit loh .yongchun =to loh ann joint as tuann
here =nanan is cer a but most cuanciu say =cit puinn
這些 cit lai from cuanciu
cit tah joint become ciah >cia in xia/ciang.
ciangciu should be ta chit ui compare to xia/cuan to cit ui
Jinjiang =tit loh .yongchun =to loh ann joint as tuann
here =nanan is cer a but most cuanciu say =cit puinn
這些 cit lai from cuanciu
cit tah joint become ciah >cia in xia/ciang.
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hong
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niuc
Thanks to all, I learned a lot from this thread!
Sim, glad to know that my form of Hokkien brings you nostalgia of your gua7-ma8
. Sometimes we also say thau1-bi4 but mostly just bi4. Yes, thau1 = to steal or to do something sneakily. I don't write 'h' for glottal stop because in my dialect, bi4 (to hide) sounds exactly the same as bi2 (rice) but they have different sandhis. Also because tone 4 & 8 automatically mean glottal stop.
Many postings in this thread also remind me of many words I heard of but I rarely use: e.g. ti7-tio4 (tioh in Hong's posting above) was occasionally heard in my hometown. I also heard some people use tue2 (khy3-tue2 = to where, khy=khir=khw). If not mistaken, tue2 is also used in Taiwanese Hokkien. My Tiociu (Teochew) friends usually say ti7-ko`3 (tone mapped to my Hokkien).
Hong, Douglas (more than 100 years ago) also noticed that Tang5-ua*1 used kun instead of kyn (kirn/kwn). May be it changed before that. However, our Tang5-ua*1-ue7 still retain -er and -y/ir/w as finals (e.g. khy3 = go, ber = want) but not as medials. Basically it's a dialect between Cuan5-ciu1 and E7-mng5.
ti7-ter3 in our usage means everywhere. si3-kue3 also means everywhere but "more active". We say ti7-ter3-u7 (exists everywhere) but not si3-kue3-u7; si3-kue3-khy3 sounds more active than ti3-ter3-khy3.
Itaq's examples like "where - toh chit ui (i.e. which place)" show that Hokkien is quite flexible. We don't really have a set of fixed words to ask question [compare to English's where, when, who, what, how...].
As pointed out by Andrew, "pun" (too) is a Malay loan word. Depending on context, Hokkien also has pun2 (root/basic, ben3 in Mandarin):
gua2 pun2-u7 -> I also have (pun2 from Malay) -> better Hokkien: gua2 ma7-u7
gua2 pun2-u7 e0 = gua2 guan5-pun2-u7 = gua2 pun2-cia*5-u7 -> I already have it by myself (pun2 here is a Hokkien word)
Sim, glad to know that my form of Hokkien brings you nostalgia of your gua7-ma8
. Sometimes we also say thau1-bi4 but mostly just bi4. Yes, thau1 = to steal or to do something sneakily. I don't write 'h' for glottal stop because in my dialect, bi4 (to hide) sounds exactly the same as bi2 (rice) but they have different sandhis. Also because tone 4 & 8 automatically mean glottal stop. Many postings in this thread also remind me of many words I heard of but I rarely use: e.g. ti7-tio4 (tioh in Hong's posting above) was occasionally heard in my hometown. I also heard some people use tue2 (khy3-tue2 = to where, khy=khir=khw). If not mistaken, tue2 is also used in Taiwanese Hokkien. My Tiociu (Teochew) friends usually say ti7-ko`3 (tone mapped to my Hokkien).
Hong, Douglas (more than 100 years ago) also noticed that Tang5-ua*1 used kun instead of kyn (kirn/kwn). May be it changed before that. However, our Tang5-ua*1-ue7 still retain -er and -y/ir/w as finals (e.g. khy3 = go, ber = want) but not as medials. Basically it's a dialect between Cuan5-ciu1 and E7-mng5.
ti7-ter3 in our usage means everywhere. si3-kue3 also means everywhere but "more active". We say ti7-ter3-u7 (exists everywhere) but not si3-kue3-u7; si3-kue3-khy3 sounds more active than ti3-ter3-khy3.
Itaq's examples like "where - toh chit ui (i.e. which place)" show that Hokkien is quite flexible. We don't really have a set of fixed words to ask question [compare to English's where, when, who, what, how...].
As pointed out by Andrew, "pun" (too) is a Malay loan word. Depending on context, Hokkien also has pun2 (root/basic, ben3 in Mandarin):
gua2 pun2-u7 -> I also have (pun2 from Malay) -> better Hokkien: gua2 ma7-u7
gua2 pun2-u7 e0 = gua2 guan5-pun2-u7 = gua2 pun2-cia*5-u7 -> I already have it by myself (pun2 here is a Hokkien word)
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hong
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niuc
"anybody home?" = u7-lang5-tio7 bo5/bo0 有人着無? Our Hokkien use tio7 for this, other usually use ti7.
Actually we more likely emphasize it -> u7-pua*3-lang5-tio7 bo0 有半人着無?
It's interesting to note that Hokkien use pua*3 半 "half" together with classifier for emphasis. From what I know, no other Chinese languages (nor other languages for that matter!) have this unique feature.
bo5-pua*3-lang5-tio7 無半人着 = not even a single person is here (literally: no half person here)
tui3-ciai5 khua*3-bo5-pua*3-cia4-cun5 對這看無半隻船 = can't spot even a single ship from here (lit.: from here see no half ship)
Actually we more likely emphasize it -> u7-pua*3-lang5-tio7 bo0 有半人着無?
It's interesting to note that Hokkien use pua*3 半 "half" together with classifier for emphasis. From what I know, no other Chinese languages (nor other languages for that matter!) have this unique feature.
bo5-pua*3-lang5-tio7 無半人着 = not even a single person is here (literally: no half person here)
tui3-ciai5 khua*3-bo5-pua*3-cia4-cun5 對這看無半隻船 = can't spot even a single ship from here (lit.: from here see no half ship)
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Itaq
Jason,
Forgot to answer your question about word lists. No, I haven't compiled any word list per se. However, there are some good minnan language books out in the market.
If you are looking to build your vocab list, I've come across a good vocab text called "Taiwan Yu Ji Ben Dan Ci 2000" (台湾語基本単語2000) by Zheng zheng-hao (鄭正浩). Though I didn't get it, there are accompanying cassettes with the book. As the name indicates, it contains about 2000 commonly used minnan words. However, it's a minnan text geared for Japanese learners. I like it because it groups vocab into categories like "physical characteristics, body parts, electronics, hospital, transportation, food, action verbs, etc." All words are presented in hanzi (traditional characters), romanization, and Japanese meaning. If you can read hanzi, you can make out most of the meanings. Also offers cuanciu and ciangciu pronunciation in the romanization. Only setback is that the text only list the words, but there are very few example sentences using the vocab.
Don't know if you can get it in bookstores where you are, but you can definitely order it from amazon japan. BTW, the ISBN is 4-87615-697-2. Hope this helps.
Forgot to answer your question about word lists. No, I haven't compiled any word list per se. However, there are some good minnan language books out in the market.
If you are looking to build your vocab list, I've come across a good vocab text called "Taiwan Yu Ji Ben Dan Ci 2000" (台湾語基本単語2000) by Zheng zheng-hao (鄭正浩). Though I didn't get it, there are accompanying cassettes with the book. As the name indicates, it contains about 2000 commonly used minnan words. However, it's a minnan text geared for Japanese learners. I like it because it groups vocab into categories like "physical characteristics, body parts, electronics, hospital, transportation, food, action verbs, etc." All words are presented in hanzi (traditional characters), romanization, and Japanese meaning. If you can read hanzi, you can make out most of the meanings. Also offers cuanciu and ciangciu pronunciation in the romanization. Only setback is that the text only list the words, but there are very few example sentences using the vocab.
Don't know if you can get it in bookstores where you are, but you can definitely order it from amazon japan. BTW, the ISBN is 4-87615-697-2. Hope this helps.
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hong