TE/BAN

hong · Post by **hong** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:34 pm

From page 135 of Prof.王建設 book on cuanciu te is explained.I cannot understand why Taiwanese don't know this joint word.
第大與萬細=普通話中的副詞最﹐泉州話通常說成第(te),所以最大也就成了第大﹐人們都知道第一是個序數詞。但是﹐在泉州話﹐它還可以作為副詞用﹐表示程度最高。如第一肥﹐第一好﹐第一歡喜。第一這種用法在古漢語中亦可見。唐。枕中記。性頗奢蕩﹐甚好佚樂﹐後庭聲色﹐皆第一綺麗。泉州中的特殊副詞第就是第一急讀音變而成。然而﹐在表示進一步強調的時候﹐第又可再加上程度副詞上﹑最﹐如上第大﹐最第好等等。惠安一帶稱極﹐非常則常用萬。這種用法則是有數詞變成副詞。如萬細﹐萬好﹐萬富(非常富有)﹐為了進一步強調﹐還可說成* 成萬或萬世代*。如成萬細﹐成萬好﹐萬世代細﹐萬世代好等等。泉州話中屬于這種活用現象的還有個*六十外*通常用作補語﹐強調狀態或程度。說仔六十外=議論紛紛﹐食仔六十外=吃得不亦了乎。

Itaq · Post by **Itaq** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:05 pm

Taiwanese Minnan sometimes baffles me with their choice of words. Instead of 'te it' or 'te' as a superlative, they prefer to use 'siong'. Interesting note on the use of 'ban' in hui an....never heard of anyone say it before.

Off the top of my head, I can think of 2 things I find odd about Taiwanese Minnan:

use of 'thiam' for tired
I have never heard anyone besides Taiwanese using it. I wonder if thiam is purely a Taiwanese invention or if it is also used elsewhere. I only know of sian for tired.

prefer using 'tng khi' for go home
Is it ciangciu influence? To me, it sounds very similar to Teociu's 'tng khur'. In fact, the way Taiwanese say it, it immediately reminds me of Teociu. I don't think I have heard any Taiwanese use 'to khi/khw'. 'to tng' is also used by Taiwanese. Again, this also sounds very Teociu to me. (Granted Teociu is an offshoot of Minnan.)

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:09 pm

We use tui*-khi and to-tui*, so it doesn't seem strange to me. Is the use of 轉 not standard in Emui*?

hong · Post by **hong** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:12 am

siong/siang and thiam were used by China as well,why feel strange about it.In china 's book to khi is more common for every sect including cuanciu.Not khw and tng.Although tng khi is in xiamen dict.

Itaq · Post by **Itaq** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:06 am

Hong...you said "were used in China". Do you mean they are no longer in use on Mainland China?

hong · Post by **hong** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:20 am

I should type are.You are right about thiam2(55 in cuanciu).xiamen dict just say 病得厉害，真thiam头 also mean 糟糕 as well。But the hanzi they used 心 radical 忝=弱 seems correct for tired.。I did hear xiamen broadcast use it as a meaning of tired.thiam 死

hong · Post by **hong** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:54 am

Prof.Ong in the book said pai is not from other languages but the hanzi is 擺，I accept the view by Prof.王育德 the reason we say mainn is because we minnan love nasalised vowel for it to become mainn.The same goes fo 看 bai,the hanzi is 目+ 賣 some prefer change in to mainn
儘管泉州話擺的讀音與壯語﹐布農語接近﹐但理由尚不夠充分。泉州話的動量詞擺實際上源于表示來回擺動的動詞擺。類似的量詞還有行kiann. 去一行北京。搗tao=回﹐局=行一搗棋。斡=uat 去一斡上海。普通話的回﹐次在古漢語都是來自動詞﹐所以擺由動詞轉化為量詞是可能的。

hong · Post by **hong** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:05 pm

I think seldom people say 仔 added after a verb in Malaysia
说仔=议论纷纷，数落不停
想仔=非常思念，绞尽脑汁
气仔=非常生气
走仔=拼命跑

hong · Post by **hong** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:17 pm

I want to correct my mistake about pretty in quanzhou.
nanan,anxi,yongchun,dehua are thik but cuanciu city,jinjiang,shishi,huian are thiak .The benzi is 女+畜.

niuc · Post by **niuc** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:21 pm

I think our usage of thiam2 is similar to E-mng, more severe than sian7, not only tired but very tired & in bad shape.

We use 'a'/'ka' after verbs and usually followed by adverbial phrase. I think 'a' here is a short form of 'ka' 到/遘 (until).
講遘無瀾 kong2-ka3/a3-bo5-nua*7 (lit. speak until no saliva)
想遘頭疼 siu*7-ka3/a3-thau5-thia*3 (lit. think until headache)
氣遘欲死 khi3-ka3/a3-ber4-si2 (lit. angry until almost die)
行遘腳痠 kia*5-ka3/a3-kha1-sng1 (lit. walk until leg aching)
走遘險[]落 cau2-ka3/a3-hiam2-phi2_lo0 (lit. run until almost tumble)

We also use 'a' after verb without adverbial phrase (as Hong mentioned):
彼兩個若[遇]着逐過講仔 hi2-nng7-e5 na7-tng7_tio0 tak8-ker3-kong2-a8 (Those two always keep talking when they meet)
害伊想仔 hai7-i1 siu*7-a8 (make him think very hard)
害伊氣仔 hai7-i1 khi*3-a8 (make him very angry)
I think this two types 'a' may be related.