Wow, nice and comprehensive reply.
I want to learn Hokkien coz there r pple I know who can speak almost only that. Also, if u talk 2 some1 who is used to it in Hokkien, he will warmth to u more.
Good that there are dictionaries, But are there any websites where u can listen to the different tones? Like if u ask me for thai, there is www.learningthai.com where at least u can listen once n carry on. Quite difficult when sum tones r very similar.
Written form
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hong
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Ephrium
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Aurelio
Hm,
The 'sticky' thing is a good idea: There are a couple of topics that come up again and again like:
- are there any (online) language courses?
- what dictionaries are there?
- how do I write hokkien?
- how many tones are there and how do I pronounce them?
- what other web resources are there on Hokkien?
Unless somebody is violently opposed to this idea I do really like the "sticky" "Hokkien 101 thread". We could cut and paste some of the good stuff in that Hong and others have posted over the years.
Any opinions?
Regards,
Aurelio
The 'sticky' thing is a good idea: There are a couple of topics that come up again and again like:
- are there any (online) language courses?
- what dictionaries are there?
- how do I write hokkien?
- how many tones are there and how do I pronounce them?
- what other web resources are there on Hokkien?
Unless somebody is violently opposed to this idea I do really like the "sticky" "Hokkien 101 thread". We could cut and paste some of the good stuff in that Hong and others have posted over the years.
Any opinions?
Regards,
Aurelio
-
Aurelio
Cool 
There are 7 different tones in Hokkien, but only 5 different contours, namely (in Amoy Hokkien):
'high' (high and level, like the 1st tone in Mandarin)
'rising' (like the 2nd tone in Mandarin)
'falling' (like the 4th tone in Mandarin)
'low' (no equivalent - think lower end of your voice register)
'mid' (no equivalent - think mid-range of your voice register and level)
That's not too hard, is it? Now, words with a final stop like -h, -p, -t, -k can come with the high or the low contour. So, in total you get the following tones:
(1) 'high'
(2) 'falling'
(3) 'low'
(4) 'low with stop'
(5) 'rising'
(6) = (2) - it's therefore not listed separately
(7) 'mid'
(8 ) 'high with stop'
I assume you're trying to sing these as you read
Now with examples:
(1) 天 thiN1 (sky)
(2) 汝 lu2 (you)
(3) 做 tsoe3 (to do)
(4) 卽 chit4 (this)
(5) 來 lai5
(6) = (2)
(7) 有 u7 (to have)
(8 ) 一 chit8 (one)
Tones 1 and 5 are pronounced like in Mandarin. That's no coincidence: There is a historical connection between the tones. When you list them in the old terminology of 平上去入, you get:
上平 Hok 1 M1
下平 Hok 5 M2
上 Hok 2 M3
上去 Hok 3 M4
下去 Hok 7 M4
上入 Hok 4 no rule
去入 Hok 8 no rule
So for tones 1, 5, 2 you can say: if you know the Hokkien tone, you do also know the Mandarin tone (and vice versa most of the time). If it's tone 3 or 7 in Hokkien then it's tone 4 in Mandarin (unfortunately, there's no way of telling the other way round). Mandarin lost the 入 tone and distributed all words in that category over the other tones - that's why sometimes the relation above does not seem to work!
So, that's Hokkien tones in a nutshell. One more important issue: Tones shift in combination (it wasn't difficult enough, right?). Hong's wbsite explains how ...
Regards,
Aurelio
There are 7 different tones in Hokkien, but only 5 different contours, namely (in Amoy Hokkien):
'high' (high and level, like the 1st tone in Mandarin)
'rising' (like the 2nd tone in Mandarin)
'falling' (like the 4th tone in Mandarin)
'low' (no equivalent - think lower end of your voice register)
'mid' (no equivalent - think mid-range of your voice register and level)
That's not too hard, is it? Now, words with a final stop like -h, -p, -t, -k can come with the high or the low contour. So, in total you get the following tones:
(1) 'high'
(2) 'falling'
(3) 'low'
(4) 'low with stop'
(5) 'rising'
(6) = (2) - it's therefore not listed separately
(7) 'mid'
(8 ) 'high with stop'
I assume you're trying to sing these as you read
Now with examples:
(1) 天 thiN1 (sky)
(2) 汝 lu2 (you)
(3) 做 tsoe3 (to do)
(4) 卽 chit4 (this)
(5) 來 lai5
(6) = (2)
(7) 有 u7 (to have)
(8 ) 一 chit8 (one)
Tones 1 and 5 are pronounced like in Mandarin. That's no coincidence: There is a historical connection between the tones. When you list them in the old terminology of 平上去入, you get:
上平 Hok 1 M1
下平 Hok 5 M2
上 Hok 2 M3
上去 Hok 3 M4
下去 Hok 7 M4
上入 Hok 4 no rule
去入 Hok 8 no rule
So for tones 1, 5, 2 you can say: if you know the Hokkien tone, you do also know the Mandarin tone (and vice versa most of the time). If it's tone 3 or 7 in Hokkien then it's tone 4 in Mandarin (unfortunately, there's no way of telling the other way round). Mandarin lost the 入 tone and distributed all words in that category over the other tones - that's why sometimes the relation above does not seem to work!
So, that's Hokkien tones in a nutshell. One more important issue: Tones shift in combination (it wasn't difficult enough, right?). Hong's wbsite explains how ...
Regards,
Aurelio
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hong
I think we must ask Eph what kind of minnan he wants to learn.
8th tone is low/middle rising in almost every sect except xiamen/longhai/yongchun baidu/tongan.Ciangciu city is 121.The sound is not the same at all.
Also first tone in longhai/dehua are low rising which more like second tone of mandarin.Fifth tone in dehua is a bit like first tone of mandarin.
8th tone is low/middle rising in almost every sect except xiamen/longhai/yongchun baidu/tongan.Ciangciu city is 121.The sound is not the same at all.
Also first tone in longhai/dehua are low rising which more like second tone of mandarin.Fifth tone in dehua is a bit like first tone of mandarin.
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Ephrium
The most common one, which can make u understood thruout the board.
But I tot of an idea. Since this thread contains sufficient ideas/info, In future when any1 raises questions we just point him/her to :
viewtopic.php?t=2345&sid=f143615bcad26b ... aa3e2330bc
Which is this thread. Still, sticky/read me , will be the best.
But I tot of an idea. Since this thread contains sufficient ideas/info, In future when any1 raises questions we just point him/her to :
viewtopic.php?t=2345&sid=f143615bcad26b ... aa3e2330bc
Which is this thread. Still, sticky/read me , will be the best.