旅店 part,putoinghua minnan dict do give a special word other dict don't have =客店。
I guess 棧間 isn't the small hotel for everyone but just 倉庫 temporary for them to stay
the practice of sentence making
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hong
Prof. Chiu as a native xiamen surely know what is 栈间,侨间 but he just don't bother to include words that are not used by anyone any more.He can write article for old xiamen words
http://xmsb.csnn.cn/20051113/document/3220.htm
http://xmsb.csnn.cn/20051113/document/3220.htm
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hong
sorry ,a bad link above
http://xmsb.csnn.com.cn/20051113/document/3220.htm
www.qzwb.com/gb/content/2005-08/23/content_1771181.htm 栈间 is store here
http://xmsb.csnn.com.cn/20051113/document/3220.htm
www.qzwb.com/gb/content/2005-08/23/content_1771181.htm 栈间 is store here
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hong
what Prof.Ciu said in xiamen dict foreign states it means tupot or any other countries.。Just like mandarin 旧时中国称外国为番邦 =文成公主下嫁番邦。minnan is special about using it to mean 南洋。Anonymous wrote:> If you say he gives the wrong meaning, you must give some examples. I can try ask him by email.many ciangciu and cuanciu are not listed by him in xiamen dict or putonghua minnan dict.
"In the <E-mng Hong-gian Li-tian> page 238, hoan 番 (2) ku-chheng koa-kok hek lam-iuN chu-kok tek: ... 番邦 hoan-pang." He give the meaning of "hoan-pang" as foreign state or the states of South East Asia.
In the native E-mng word, this word "番邦 hoan-pang" just means the territories of "Tupot 吐番". The Tupot was a state in Tibet at the time of Tong Dynasty. Past old time, there were many places for the listening of stories in E-mng city. The story-tellers usually said the legends of Tong Dynasty. Such as the "battles of Tong with Tupot". "Su Lim-kui pah hoan-pang" (The General Su Lim-kui attack Tupot) was a very welcome story by the popular listeners. When anybody said the word of hoan-pang, the listeners of native E-mng person understanded which was mean the Tupot immediately.
magpie
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Guest
Although, Pro. Chiu may be a native E-mng speaker, but he is a children before 1950s. When the time of 1950s to 1970s, he may be educated and worked with the Mandarin speaking. His friends, members of family, relatives, neighbourhood did not have any person talking about this word "chan-keng" in their conversation. Therefore, he did not know the "chan-keng" meaning the "inn or small hotel" in native E-mng speaking before 1950s.
The author of that article http://www.qzwb.com/gb/content/2005-08/ ... 771181.htm 棧間 (store), he chose the word "chan-keng" to mean the storehouse that he may be influenced by the <Phou-thong-oe Ban-lam hong-gian li-tian> or <E-mng hong-gian li-tien>.
This word "Chan-keng" meaning the inn or small hotel also said in An-khoe, Lam-oaN and Chin-kang. In 1970s, my ancle travelled to Bin-li-lah (Manila), he lived in a chan-keng (small hotel) which was owned by a Chin-kang speaker. This owner talked with my uncle many about his business, when he said about his inn as using this word "chan-keng". I know a person who is an An-khoe speaker, he told me about the story of An-khoe, that one was about the "chan-keng" (inn), he use chan-keng to mean the inn. A friend of me, he is Lam-oaN talking about his family ran a "chan-keng" (small hotel) in the "Phu-su 浮嶼" before 1950s. I heard many about the word of chan-keng, so when I see this <E-mng hong-gian li-tien> give chan-keng as the meaning of store or storehouse, I know that is a wrong meaning.
magpie
The author of that article http://www.qzwb.com/gb/content/2005-08/ ... 771181.htm 棧間 (store), he chose the word "chan-keng" to mean the storehouse that he may be influenced by the <Phou-thong-oe Ban-lam hong-gian li-tian> or <E-mng hong-gian li-tien>.
This word "Chan-keng" meaning the inn or small hotel also said in An-khoe, Lam-oaN and Chin-kang. In 1970s, my ancle travelled to Bin-li-lah (Manila), he lived in a chan-keng (small hotel) which was owned by a Chin-kang speaker. This owner talked with my uncle many about his business, when he said about his inn as using this word "chan-keng". I know a person who is an An-khoe speaker, he told me about the story of An-khoe, that one was about the "chan-keng" (inn), he use chan-keng to mean the inn. A friend of me, he is Lam-oaN talking about his family ran a "chan-keng" (small hotel) in the "Phu-su 浮嶼" before 1950s. I heard many about the word of chan-keng, so when I see this <E-mng hong-gian li-tien> give chan-keng as the meaning of store or storehouse, I know that is a wrong meaning.
magpie
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Guest
e-mng / mandarin / english:
棧間 chan-keng = 旅店 = inn, small hotel
客棧 kheh-chan = 旅店 = inn, small hotel
間也 keng-a = 妓院 = house of prostitute
查某間 cha-bou-keng = 妓院 = house of prostitute
烏燻間 ou-hun-keng = 鴉片館 = o pium cafe
繳間 kiau-keng = 賭場 = casino
棧房 chan-pang = 小倉庫 = storehouse
貨棧 he-chan = 倉庫 = godown
This word "chan-keng 棧間" means the inn, small hotel and only use in the language to express any one inn or small hotel.
example:
1. Li loh-khi E-mng, beh toa chan-keng hio loa-ku?
You are going to E-mng, how long did you stay in the inn.
li you
loh-khi go to
beh want
toa stay
hio rest
loa-ku how long
2. Na u khi E-mng? li chiah hio "Phu-su 浮嶼" hit-kak-a e chan-keng kha ho-se.
If you go to E-mng? you can stay an inn at the district of Phu-su that is more good.
na if
u have
khi go
chiah then
Phu-su the name of a district
hit-kak-a that corner
e fnction word
kha than
ho-se good
This word "kheh-chan 客棧" means the inn, small hotel and usually use in the company-name of an inn or small hotel.
example:
1. Hit-keng "Chhun-seng Kheh-chan" si khui ti "Pah-thi-koe 拍鐵街", oa-kun lou-thau tui-bin.
That "Chhn-seng Inn" is at the street of Pah-thi-koe on business, near the opposite direction of pier.
Hit-keng that one (inn)
Chhun-seng the name of an inn
si is
khui operate
ti in
Pah-thi-koe the name of a street
oa-kun near
lou-thau pier
tui-bin opposite
2. Li beh chhe An-khoe-lang khui-e chan-keng? u chit-keng ho-choe "Tong-eng Kheh-chan" khui ti "Ang-bun-pou 洪本部" hit-kak.
Did you want to find the inn that managed by An-khoe-lang? There is a one, its name "Tong-eng Inn" at the corner of Ang-bn-po on bsiness.
chhe find
An-khoe-lang An-khoe person
khui-e operate
chit-keng a (inn)
ho-choe give a name
Tong-eng the name of an inn
Ang-bun-pou the name of a corner
hit-kak that corner
magpie
棧間 chan-keng = 旅店 = inn, small hotel
客棧 kheh-chan = 旅店 = inn, small hotel
間也 keng-a = 妓院 = house of prostitute
查某間 cha-bou-keng = 妓院 = house of prostitute
烏燻間 ou-hun-keng = 鴉片館 = o pium cafe
繳間 kiau-keng = 賭場 = casino
棧房 chan-pang = 小倉庫 = storehouse
貨棧 he-chan = 倉庫 = godown
This word "chan-keng 棧間" means the inn, small hotel and only use in the language to express any one inn or small hotel.
example:
1. Li loh-khi E-mng, beh toa chan-keng hio loa-ku?
You are going to E-mng, how long did you stay in the inn.
li you
loh-khi go to
beh want
toa stay
hio rest
loa-ku how long
2. Na u khi E-mng? li chiah hio "Phu-su 浮嶼" hit-kak-a e chan-keng kha ho-se.
If you go to E-mng? you can stay an inn at the district of Phu-su that is more good.
na if
u have
khi go
chiah then
Phu-su the name of a district
hit-kak-a that corner
e fnction word
kha than
ho-se good
This word "kheh-chan 客棧" means the inn, small hotel and usually use in the company-name of an inn or small hotel.
example:
1. Hit-keng "Chhun-seng Kheh-chan" si khui ti "Pah-thi-koe 拍鐵街", oa-kun lou-thau tui-bin.
That "Chhn-seng Inn" is at the street of Pah-thi-koe on business, near the opposite direction of pier.
Hit-keng that one (inn)
Chhun-seng the name of an inn
si is
khui operate
ti in
Pah-thi-koe the name of a street
oa-kun near
lou-thau pier
tui-bin opposite
2. Li beh chhe An-khoe-lang khui-e chan-keng? u chit-keng ho-choe "Tong-eng Kheh-chan" khui ti "Ang-bun-pou 洪本部" hit-kak.
Did you want to find the inn that managed by An-khoe-lang? There is a one, its name "Tong-eng Inn" at the corner of Ang-bn-po on bsiness.
chhe find
An-khoe-lang An-khoe person
khui-e operate
chit-keng a (inn)
ho-choe give a name
Tong-eng the name of an inn
Ang-bun-pou the name of a corner
hit-kak that corner
magpie
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Guest
hokkien / mandarin / english
外邦 koa-pang = 外國 = foreign state
番邦 hoan-pang = 吐番 = Tupot
番洋 hoan-iuN = 南洋 = the South East Asia
番爿 hoan-peng = 印尼 Indonesia
1. In the Dutch time, this word 番爿 hoan-peng meaned the Indonesia.
2. But now, many people means 番爿 hoan-peng as this word 番洋 hoan-iuN = 南洋 nan-iang (in Mandarin).
番也 hoan-a = 外族 foreign nation
生番 chhiN-hoan = The foreign nations live in a hunting society.
熟番 sek-hoan = The foreign nations live in a agriculture society.
豬高番 ti-ko-hoan = The nations of hoan-iuN, in their custome they do not eat the pig.
文成公主下嫁 吐番 (mandarin) = 文成公主下嫁 番邦 (hokkien)
About the states in Tong Dynasty, the old native E-mng speakers know there are Ko-le (korean) in the East, Thut-khit (Turks) in the North and Hoan-pang (Tupot) in the West. The word Viking is a term of history, when we hear Viking then we know that is mean the Medieval, anyone no think about the modern states of Norway, Sweden and Danmark in their memory. This hoan-pang is also a term of history, we say hoan-pang then others understanding it is mean Tupot in the past Tong Dynasty. This hoan-pang is a special term to indicate the "state of Tupot". This word 番洋 hoan-iuN is using to mean "南洋 nan-iang (Mandarin)". Now many person use 番爿 hoan-peng for 番洋 hoan-iuN, hoan-iuN is lost in the memory of Hokkien speakers.
外邦 koa-pang = 外國 = foreign state
番邦 hoan-pang = 吐番 = Tupot
番洋 hoan-iuN = 南洋 = the South East Asia
番爿 hoan-peng = 印尼 Indonesia
1. In the Dutch time, this word 番爿 hoan-peng meaned the Indonesia.
2. But now, many people means 番爿 hoan-peng as this word 番洋 hoan-iuN = 南洋 nan-iang (in Mandarin).
番也 hoan-a = 外族 foreign nation
生番 chhiN-hoan = The foreign nations live in a hunting society.
熟番 sek-hoan = The foreign nations live in a agriculture society.
豬高番 ti-ko-hoan = The nations of hoan-iuN, in their custome they do not eat the pig.
文成公主下嫁 吐番 (mandarin) = 文成公主下嫁 番邦 (hokkien)
About the states in Tong Dynasty, the old native E-mng speakers know there are Ko-le (korean) in the East, Thut-khit (Turks) in the North and Hoan-pang (Tupot) in the West. The word Viking is a term of history, when we hear Viking then we know that is mean the Medieval, anyone no think about the modern states of Norway, Sweden and Danmark in their memory. This hoan-pang is also a term of history, we say hoan-pang then others understanding it is mean Tupot in the past Tong Dynasty. This hoan-pang is a special term to indicate the "state of Tupot". This word 番洋 hoan-iuN is using to mean "南洋 nan-iang (Mandarin)". Now many person use 番爿 hoan-peng for 番洋 hoan-iuN, hoan-iuN is lost in the memory of Hokkien speakers.
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Guest
番客 hoan-kheh;
1. 宋朝定居泉州一带的阿拉伯人, Persian and Jew.
2. The oversea Hokkien speakers from Meng Dynasty to present time.
tai-oan-kheh 台灣客 Tai-oan Hokkiener
lu-song-kheh 呂宋客 Philippino Hokkiener
an-lam-kheh 安南客 Vietnamese Hokkiener
sit-lat-kheh 實力客 Malaysian Hokkiener
hoan-peng-kheh 番爿客 Indonesian Hokkiener
bin-tien-kheh 緬甸客 Burmanese Hokkiener
magpie
1. 宋朝定居泉州一带的阿拉伯人, Persian and Jew.
2. The oversea Hokkien speakers from Meng Dynasty to present time.
tai-oan-kheh 台灣客 Tai-oan Hokkiener
lu-song-kheh 呂宋客 Philippino Hokkiener
an-lam-kheh 安南客 Vietnamese Hokkiener
sit-lat-kheh 實力客 Malaysian Hokkiener
hoan-peng-kheh 番爿客 Indonesian Hokkiener
bin-tien-kheh 緬甸客 Burmanese Hokkiener
magpie
>> 豬高番 ti-ko-hoan = The nations of hoan-iuN, in their custome they do not eat the pig.
I have my doubt about this. I thought 豬高 is somehow related to "dago", with the same derogatory overtone.
Interestingly, "dago" is used for the latin whites such as Portugese, Spaniards, and Italians, whereas 豬高 is used for the brown people such as Malays.
I have my doubt about this. I thought 豬高 is somehow related to "dago", with the same derogatory overtone.
Interestingly, "dago" is used for the latin whites such as Portugese, Spaniards, and Italians, whereas 豬高 is used for the brown people such as Malays.
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Guest
It is crazy to say Prof.ciu doesn't know what is the other meaning of 棧間,dict don't have to include all those out of style words.I don't plan to email him asking these two stupid question at all.
You are only talking about unimportant things,it is not about 本字 or regular words like 語氣詞= koh which is missing but appear in 廈門方言志 and many articles.
hong
You are only talking about unimportant things,it is not about 本字 or regular words like 語氣詞= koh which is missing but appear in 廈門方言志 and many articles.
hong