Happy Chinese New Year!

SL De · Post by **SL De** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:02 am

Sorry, that was me. I forgot to fill in the username, as usual.
SL De

hong · Post by **hong** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:15 am

SL,
If you so interested to type in POJ,why you don't have the input software like mark did since the 7 tones mark are missing in your post.
Casey is asking you to write english in sentences but not word-by-word.

Eng Wai · Post by **Eng Wai** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:37 pm

Dear SL, what is lan-lang oe?

What is it in written Chinese?

Cheers

Eng Wai

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:29 am

Andrew,

> However, to me 與 = 文 u2 白 hO7 is easy to understand because 雨 = 文 u2 白 hO7 also.
Unless you are saying that 雨 also has a different character?

I guess that this word of "hou7 (rain)" in the Hokkian speaking has a different character.

與 (give) = "與 u2" peh-thak-im 白讀音 (oral reading), "與 i" bun-thak-im 文讀音 (literary reading)
雨 (rain) = "雨 u2" peh-thak-im 白讀音 (oral reading), "雨 i" bun-thak-im 文讀音 (literary reading)

Let us compare these terms of natural phenomenons in the Hokkian and the Mandarin, then we could know that there may be a next character to indicate the word of "hou7 (rain)" in Hokkian speaking.

Terms of natural phenomenons in Hokkian and in Mandarin:
galaxy / oh-khoe 濠溪 / thian-ho 天河
sun / lit-thau 日頭 / tai-iang 太陽
winter / koaN-lang 寒農 / tong-thian 冬天
summer / loa-lang 熱農 / sia-thian 夏天
bright day / ho-lit 好日 / chheng-thian 天
lightning / chhi-chhoa 「足切」掣 / san-tian 閃電
rainbow / kheng 涇 / hong 虹
rain / hou ( ) ? / i 雨
etc...

We could see the Hokkian and Mandarin in this list of terms which they usually have the very different characters to mean the "words" of natural phenomenons in their own native speaking.

SL

tantg · Post by **tantg** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:47 am

I would like to offer my support for Casey's point of view, posted Mar 09, 2005. If you have to write in alphabet but can't do the Chinese characters, then at least give the English translation.

I also agree with Hong, that for a long technical article, it is time consuming, if not impossible, to understand. I simply don't have the time or feel motivated enough to fight through SL De's long essays, and that's a shame, as SLD must have put in a lot of effort which has gone to waste for a few of us.

As to the argument using the Cantonese example to support writing in dialects, well at least over there they don't write long discourse using Romanisation. I think, sticking out my neck here, Cantonese has found more dialect characters in Chinese to support their dialect writing. Even so, for me it's quite hard to read a long article written in Cantonese dialect characters.

tantg · Post by **tantg** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:58 am

>> what is lan-lang oe?

It is simply "our language".

I have heard un-lang, lan-lang or simply lan to mean "us, our".

Hazarding a guess,

un-lang = 吾人 (我們)
lan = ?
oe = 話

tantg · Post by **tantg** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:10 am

I thought ho (give) is 付 as in 付與,付錢, or even 賦 as in 賦予,天賦.

petey · Post by **petey** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:17 am

Hullo! I grew up in Kuala Lumpur, and there's a district there whose Malay/English name is Pudu (and there is a Pudu Road), but the Cantonese name is bun saam ba - 'semi jungle' (Cantonese is the dominant Chinese variety in Kuala Lumpur). My family is Hokkien, so this becomes puaN suaN pa.

Cheers,
Petey

niuc wrote:
We also usually say 'pa1' for forest, 樹林 'chiu7-na5' is more "formal". I am quite surprised not able to found the word in Douglas'. It sounds so Hokkien to me and I don't know any other languages in SE Asia using 'pa' for forest. There are a lot of places in Riau (Sumatra) called '... pa1' ( ... forest) in Hokkien such as 'tua7-pa1' (big forest), 'si3-kak4-pa1' (four corners / rectangular forest), 'chau3-ta1-pa1' (scorched forest). Interestingly, 'pa1' also - may be just homophones - means "town" in my hometown Bagansiapiapi. We have 'pa1 lia4' (downtown), 'ting2 pa1' (upper town or upper forest? i.e. the southern part), 'e7-pa1' (lower town/forest ? i.e. the northern part), also 'pa1-au7' (rear part of town/forest ? i.e. the eastern part). Western part is called 海口 'hai2-khau2' (literally: mouth of sea) i.e. seaside/seaport. May be it was a forest therefore its part were named like that. I am not sure what's the character for 'pa1' & 'lia4', also what 'lia4' means here. But for us, 'pa1-lia4' more or less means "downtown".

Mark Yong · Post by **Mark Yong** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:35 am

tantg wrote:I thought ho (give) is 付 as in 付與,付錢, or even 賦 as in 賦予,天賦.

Hi, Tan TG,

From my copy of Mathews' Chinese Dictionary, it appears that both 與 and 付 have the meaning "give" in Classical/Literary Chinese. My guess is that it is more likely to be 與 for two reasons:

1. The 文讀 for 付 is 'hu' (somebody please help with the tone number), and as far as I know, there are no words in Minnan where the 白讀 for a word -o shifts to -O.

2. The 文讀 for 雨 is 'oo', and the 白讀 is our well-known 'hO'. Mapping it to Mandarin gives 'yu3'. In terms of the Mandarin/Minnan mapping, this appears to be a 1-to-1 match with 與.

That is my guess. But I best leave the final say to someone who knows more than me.

Cheers,
Mark

tantg · Post by **tantg** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:43 am

Hi Mark,

What you are saying is
雨 - Mandarin yu, Minnan ho, so correspondingly, 與 is the same.

Ok to me in this instance. But it seems that not many other "yu" words in Mandarin are even close to the "ho" sound in Minnan.

And I'd still like to know (I don't have a dictionary), for Mandarin "fu" words, how 斧,付,附,賦,副 etc are pronounced in Minnan. I thought 府,服 etc are closer to "ho" (though not the same).