I need some help with 3 Hokkien words

[SimL]

Hi there,

I'm examining a Hokkien poem/song at the moment, and came across some words which I have questions about.

1. In Hokkien we have the word "peng5" (side), as in "cit peng", "nng peng" (one side, two sides). How is this word written in characters? I suppose it's not 边, which I suppose is "pi~1".

2. On connections with sacrifices made at the grave at the time of "ceng beng", the term "lo ciu2" = "? 酒" is used, apparently a type of wine. Does anyone know the following:

a) How does one write "lo" in characters?
b) What is the tone of "lo" ?
c) What sort of wine is this ?

3. The verb "sun" is used (the tone is uncertain). The person who sang the song to me tells me that it means "to look very carefully at something, to examine". The context was "sun3 bong3 pai5", which he said meant that "someone was looking very carefully at the inscription on a grave (her dead husband's)". This is a Hokkien word which I don't know. Does anyone know the following:

a) How does one write "sun" in characters?
b) What the tone of "sun" ?
c) Is it a common word?

The most important thing I'm after is the way of writing the 3 words "peng5", "lo", "sun" in characters (and perhaps the tones of the last 2). The other questions are more just "nice additional information".

Thanks very much for any help,
Sim.

[ong]

pan=爿or 片+分.The old system of spelling in China for this hanzi match the sound pan ,painn,peng,ping,puinn(pirnn) but not pin. Your's could be pan/ping but peng is only for southern ciangciu.
I think it is sim3 not san .hanzi unknown yet in most diciotnary.Putonghua minnan dict isn't correct either.
It is just 老酒 for the word lo2 =好酒

[ong]

yes,there is 循 sun5 bong pai ,sun zi which means repaint the inscription.
i think the guy misunderstood sim and sun.

[SimL]

Thanks Ong,

The word that the person sang in the song was "sun", rhymes with "gun" (= English 'we', 'us', but perhaps with a different tone), not "san".

How come 老 is pronounced "lo" and not "lau"? Is "lo" the literary pronunciation?

Anyone else have an opinion on these words?

Sim.

[ong]

loo is wendu ,lau is baidu but Taiwanese think it is the opposite.Prof.Chiu then wrote an article on this,one of them did change his opinion.

[ong]

sorry ,it should be lo

[SimL]

Ok Ong,

Everything is now clear about lo/lau and sun. Thanks again.

Sim.

[SimL]

Sorry,

I forgot one question. In the same song, in relation to grave sacrifices / offerings, they sing about "be1 cek4", which appear to be some candles used during "ceng beng". Would this be 馬燭, or some other word for "be2"? What type of candles are these?

Also, where you gave the character 爿 for "peng5" - when we say "this side" (cit peng) and "that side" (hit peng) in Hokkien, should we write them as 这爿 and 彼爿 ?

Thanks,
Sim.

[Aurelio]

Hi Sim,

Good to see you around here (Oh, and I just got your e-mail a minute ago ... will respond shortly).

I use 爿, too, for peng5 or ping5 (as one of my dictionaries will have it) - I think it is actually the historically correct character, making it 這爿 and 彼爿 (or 即爿 and 迄爿, if you prefer).

The oscillation between -n final in Mandarin and -ng final in Hokkien is actually not that uncommon, examples:

飯 png7 fan4
門 mng5 men2
問 mng7 wen4
算 sng3 suan4
千 tshing1 qian1

Maybe also:
人 lang5 ren2

Can't really help on the other ones, my vocabulary is nowhere good enough

Best regards,
Aurelio

[SimL]

Hi Aurelio,

Thanks very much for your input. Indeed you are right about the -n / -ng alternation.

Tomorrow I will mail you *all* the details that have been promised for so long, so please check your mail the day after that .

Tonight, I just want to put the final finishing touches to the documentation. I will post any outstanding questions here on the Forum, after you have had a look.

Sim.