Linbaoqin did mention this book saying there are not many benzi in an article.Heruler wrote:Hi,
For those who would like to have Taiwanese/Hokkien - English dictionaries, you may want to consider acquiring the following:
(1) Taiwanese-English Dictionary 台語英語字典 by the Rev. (Father) Edward J. Flanigan, M.M. (洪惠眾) of The Maryknoll Language Service Center, Taichung, Taiwan. (Also known as Maryknoll Fathers; Maryknoll Taiwan.) First edition 1976; second edition 2002. No ISBN number. The Catholic Church in Taiwan has adopted the POJ developed by the Protestant Missionaries.
(2) English-Amoy Dictionary 英語閩南語字典 by the same author and the same publisher. First edition 1979; second edition 1995. No ISBN number.
I highly recommend both dictionaries. I first found them at the Asian Center Library of the University of Chicago. In a trip to Taiwan, I bought them at 台灣e5店 (The Shop of Taiwan) in Taipei.
Heruler
My books
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Andrew
I got mine on abebooks.com for about £50. At the moment, they have a facsimile reprint of the 1899 edition for $224. If I am not mistaken, the 1899 edition had hanzi written in by hand - Ganesha Publishing are offering the same for $275.Mark Yong wrote:Hi, Andrew,
You managed to acquire a copy of Douglas? Wow! I only managed to spot it on E-Bay, going at a whopping USD$1,350, so sadly, I had to give it a miss.1. Douglas, Chinese-English Dictionary of the Vernacular of Spoken Language of Amoy, wih the principal variations of the Chang-chew and Chin-chew Dialects, Kut'ing Press reprint of the 1873 edition, with the 1923 Supplement by Barclay - English.
Dangdang.Did you get this via dangdang or joyo? The fact that it talks about benzi and links to Classical Chinese is the part the interests me the most! (I think those of you who are regulars here are well-aware of my obsession for benzi, especially Sim!)2. 林宝卿，《闽南方言与古汉语同源词典》2002 Amoy University Press
I have this, too. I like it a lot, as it captures a lot of words and terminologies now seldom used in contemporary Hokkien conversation in Malaysia.4. Bodman, Spoken Amoy Hokkien 1987 Spoken Language Services.
Regarding Carstairs Douglas' Dictionary:
If you have friends in Taiwan, you may solicit their help to buy a copy for you at a dirt-cheap price. The first edition of 1873 with Barclay's supplement has been reprinted by SMC Publishing Inc. 南天書局 (http://www.smcbook.com.tw/). Its price is about 1,200 New Taiwan Dollars (NT$). The exchange rate now is about NT$32.30 to US$1.00. So, it comes to about US$38. There are sold in many fine bookstores in Taipei. The weakness about this edition is the lack of han-ji in the main text. Barclay's supplement has the han-ji.
Taiwan Renaissance Foundation (林茂生愛鄉文化基金會 in Taipei) reprinted the second edition of 1899. This is a facsimile reprint of a personal copy originally owned by Dr. Landsborough who founded Changhua Christian Hospital (彰化基督教醫院) in Changhua, Taiwan. It has Chinese characters beautifully handwritten by caligraphy on the margin by Rev. Lim En-Sin (林燕臣牧師, who had an imperial 秀才 degree). Rev. Lim was the father of 林茂生. Therefore, this edition has a subtitle, "Memorial Edition of Rev. Lim En-Sin's Caligraphy, Reprinted 1999". It lacks Barclay's supplement. It had a run of 600 copies. I checked the foundation's Web site:
http://www.trf.org.tw
It is no longer available.
I count myself very fortunate to have both copies, the second of which was a kind gift from Ms. Lim Chhiu-Kiok (林秋菊), a granddaughter of Lim En-Sin.
Heruler
If you have friends in Taiwan, you may solicit their help to buy a copy for you at a dirt-cheap price. The first edition of 1873 with Barclay's supplement has been reprinted by SMC Publishing Inc. 南天書局 (http://www.smcbook.com.tw/). Its price is about 1,200 New Taiwan Dollars (NT$). The exchange rate now is about NT$32.30 to US$1.00. So, it comes to about US$38. There are sold in many fine bookstores in Taipei. The weakness about this edition is the lack of han-ji in the main text. Barclay's supplement has the han-ji.
Taiwan Renaissance Foundation (林茂生愛鄉文化基金會 in Taipei) reprinted the second edition of 1899. This is a facsimile reprint of a personal copy originally owned by Dr. Landsborough who founded Changhua Christian Hospital (彰化基督教醫院) in Changhua, Taiwan. It has Chinese characters beautifully handwritten by caligraphy on the margin by Rev. Lim En-Sin (林燕臣牧師, who had an imperial 秀才 degree). Rev. Lim was the father of 林茂生. Therefore, this edition has a subtitle, "Memorial Edition of Rev. Lim En-Sin's Caligraphy, Reprinted 1999". It lacks Barclay's supplement. It had a run of 600 copies. I checked the foundation's Web site:
http://www.trf.org.tw
It is no longer available.
I count myself very fortunate to have both copies, the second of which was a kind gift from Ms. Lim Chhiu-Kiok (林秋菊), a granddaughter of Lim En-Sin.
Heruler
Re: My books
廈門方言詞典, 2002 Jiangsu Education Press, 37¥, part of the 現代漢語方言大詞典 series. Chinese (traditional character edition). Useful, but again arranged by rhyme.
This vol suppose to be used together with the 6 vol edition .There are something about benzi,etc there.
5. 林宝卿，《闽南话口语》, Amoy University Press 20¥ - slim book with Chinese (simplified - no romanisation) with cassettes in Amoy dialect. Satisfactory, but the lack of romanisation means you have to listen very hard if you are used to another form of Hokkien.
LIN should do zhangzhou city and quanzhou city version with the same dialog in CD .She is 68 now.
This vol suppose to be used together with the 6 vol edition .There are something about benzi,etc there.
5. 林宝卿，《闽南话口语》, Amoy University Press 20¥ - slim book with Chinese (simplified - no romanisation) with cassettes in Amoy dialect. Satisfactory, but the lack of romanisation means you have to listen very hard if you are used to another form of Hokkien.
LIN should do zhangzhou city and quanzhou city version with the same dialog in CD .She is 68 now.
林宝卿，《闽南话教程》 Amoy University Press 2000 (7th Ed....1st Edition was published in 1992)
This slim book is a Minnan primer which comes with a cassette. Recordings are in the Amoy dialect. Includes romanization and Mandarin equivalents. However, the book does not employ church romanization. Instead, it uses pinyin style romanization and tonal marks, so if you are used to church romanization style, it can throw you off the loop. The preface of the text does include a reference chart showing differences between the romanization styles.
That's the problem with Minnan language materials from mainland China and Taiwan...incongruencies in romanization.
Quite good dialogues included in each lesson with exercises and concise explanations on pronunciation and grammar. Unfortunately, only the dialogues are recorded. No recordings for the pronunciation exercises.
This slim book is a Minnan primer which comes with a cassette. Recordings are in the Amoy dialect. Includes romanization and Mandarin equivalents. However, the book does not employ church romanization. Instead, it uses pinyin style romanization and tonal marks, so if you are used to church romanization style, it can throw you off the loop. The preface of the text does include a reference chart showing differences between the romanization styles.
That's the problem with Minnan language materials from mainland China and Taiwan...incongruencies in romanization.
Quite good dialogues included in each lesson with exercises and concise explanations on pronunciation and grammar. Unfortunately, only the dialogues are recorded. No recordings for the pronunciation exercises.
In Volume 1 Page 216 of Bodman, he quotes Confucius twice (using Amoy Hokkien pronunciation, word-for-word):ong wrote: Bodman is an expert on old chinese language but certainly not minnan language
1. Kì sô pût iôk, bŭt sî ū zín 己所不欲, 勿施於人
2. Lō iáu tī mâ liêk, sü kiù kiàn zïn sîm 路遙知馬力; 日久見人心
(I think the 6th word should have been 'jit')
I wonder how many native Hokkien speakers today can do that! After all, Bodman was not a native speaker, and his book was written only six decades (or two generations) ago!
By the way, is the pronunciation 'ū' for 於 specific to Amoy 廈門 ? Is it different for, say, Chiang Chew 漳州 and Chuan Chew 泉州? If I am not mistaken, the surname 余 among Penang Hokkiens is normally Romanised as "Ee", which suggests that Mandarin words with -ü endings end up as -u in Amoy 廈門, but as -i in Chiang Chew 漳州 (this is consistent with the phonetic table provided by 陳章太 and 李如龍 "閩語研究").
Finally... how is 否則 pronounced in Hokkien? Specifically Amoy (being the 'standard') and Chiang Chew (that's my personal bias, since my first exposure to Hokkien was in Penang). In all the books I have read, 否 is ALWAYS given as "p'ai" (bad, unlucky). But 否 is such a common word in Classical Chinese that there must be a literal reading for it in Hokkien that carries the proper meaning of "no/not".
Mark, I think there are still quite a number of people especially in Taiwan and Fujian who still can recite classical works using literary reading. Unfortunately most young people are not able to do that. Indeed literary quotes like those won't be easily understood by most native Hokkien speakers. Even in the old times, I think only those who went to school or were rich enough to have private lessons [私塾 sy1-siok8] that could easily understand those quotes.
In my dialect, 於 is usually pronounced as gy7; e.g. 等於 ting2-gy7. [Note: I use 'y' for the sound like 'i' in Mandarin Pinyin 'si']
余 is y5 in my dialect. I think the romanized surname "Er" also refers to this.
Literary reading aside, 否 is also used - particularly in Taiwan - as the character for bai2. Although may be bai2 is just another pronunciation of phai2 壞 , the former sounds "softer" and "not as serious as" the latter.
In my dialect, 於 is usually pronounced as gy7; e.g. 等於 ting2-gy7. [Note: I use 'y' for the sound like 'i' in Mandarin Pinyin 'si']
余 is y5 in my dialect. I think the romanized surname "Er" also refers to this.
Literary reading aside, 否 is also used - particularly in Taiwan - as the character for bai2. Although may be bai2 is just another pronunciation of phai2 壞 , the former sounds "softer" and "not as serious as" the latter.