Hello,
I invite you to take a look at the following site:
http://home.planet.nl/~lie00120/temp.htm
I have posted a picture of the tombstone of one of my forefathers.
I would like to know what the character is which has a red circle around it.
Also what does it mean in combination to the characters before?
民國 = Min2 Guo2 = Republic of China
五年 = Wu3 Nian2 = Year 5 = 1916
即至聖? = Ji2 Zhi4 Sheng4 ? = ...
丙辰 = Bing3 Chen2 = Fire - Dragon = 1916
八月 = Ba1 Yue4 = 8th month
望日 = Wang4 Ri4 = day of the full moon (15th day)
立石 = Li4 Shi2 = placing of the tombstone
kind regards,
Elmer
what character could this be?
I would think that 聖﹍ should be the name of the place that they moved to in 1916.
However, the top half of that character does not even look like a Chinese character; I'm wondering if it might be some other script, such as Suzhou numerals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzhou_num ... u_numerals or even katakana?
龍溪
民國五年至聖﹍丙辰年八月望日立石
顯考王朝誥授雷珍蘭號永昌李公佳城
顯妣王朝誥授大淑人諱臨娘許氏壽域
男
全傑 全慶 全寧 全英 全吉
女
敏娘 和娘
孫
羨猷 振章 羨謨 振輝 振儀 振煌
仝立
However, the top half of that character does not even look like a Chinese character; I'm wondering if it might be some other script, such as Suzhou numerals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzhou_num ... u_numerals or even katakana?
龍溪
民國五年至聖﹍丙辰年八月望日立石
顯考王朝誥授雷珍蘭號永昌李公佳城
顯妣王朝誥授大淑人諱臨娘許氏壽域
男
全傑 全慶 全寧 全英 全吉
女
敏娘 和娘
孫
羨猷 振章 羨謨 振輝 振儀 振煌
仝立
Hi duaaagiii and Elmer,
I find it quite intriguing that Elmer and I are both specifically investigating the gravestones of our ancestors at the same time too
.
It seems that for almost all the gravestones of my ancestors and relatives, the left side of the inscription lists the names of the children and grandchildren of the deceased, often written with the formula:
(孝)男 + <NamesOfSons> +
(孝)女 + <NamesOfDaughters> +
孫 + <NamesOfGrandchildren>
[The last section, with the names of the grandchildren, appears to be optional, either because some people leave it out, or because the person died without there being any grandchildren yet].
I wonder if this is more or less a "standard format" for Hokkien (South Chinese?, Chinese?) grave inscriptions, as it's similar to that on the grave of Elmer's ancestor too.
Also interesting is that on my great-grandfather's grave, a particular phrase comes after the "standard" list of children and grandchildren, and this phrase is similar to the one at the same spot in Elmer's ancestor's grave:
等仝立石
Am I right in thinking that this means "... and others together erected this stone". If so, then it makes a lot of sense that this phrase occurs at this point.
Sim.
I find it quite intriguing that Elmer and I are both specifically investigating the gravestones of our ancestors at the same time too
.It seems that for almost all the gravestones of my ancestors and relatives, the left side of the inscription lists the names of the children and grandchildren of the deceased, often written with the formula:
(孝)男 + <NamesOfSons> +
(孝)女 + <NamesOfDaughters> +
孫 + <NamesOfGrandchildren>
[The last section, with the names of the grandchildren, appears to be optional, either because some people leave it out, or because the person died without there being any grandchildren yet].
I wonder if this is more or less a "standard format" for Hokkien (South Chinese?, Chinese?) grave inscriptions, as it's similar to that on the grave of Elmer's ancestor too.
Also interesting is that on my great-grandfather's grave, a particular phrase comes after the "standard" list of children and grandchildren, and this phrase is similar to the one at the same spot in Elmer's ancestor's grave:
等仝立石
Am I right in thinking that this means "... and others together erected this stone". If so, then it makes a lot of sense that this phrase occurs at this point.
Sim.
Elmer:
How I *ENVY* you the clarity of your grave inscription. My great-grandfather's is so faint that it's incredibly difficult to work out what's written on some parts of it.
The next time I'm in Penang, I'll take a thick black marker pen with me, and fill in the faint carved-in text, before I take the next series of photographs.
Sim.
How I *ENVY* you the clarity of your grave inscription. My great-grandfather's is so faint that it's incredibly difficult to work out what's written on some parts of it.
The next time I'm in Penang, I'll take a thick black marker pen with me, and fill in the faint carved-in text, before I take the next series of photographs.
Sim.
This is not hanzi you give last time .If I am not wrong it is called 海澄山仰社 previously but now it is call 海沧山仰社 under amoy instead of ciangciu.
仰 should be giang instead of giong.We can easily know the vowel like ionn,iang,u instead of i are using in this area but we need infomartion about the first tone,eighth tone ,sandhi in this area.Take a trip will be the only option instaed of waiting for somebody to write an article.We have people in penang came from this area as well
http://penangmedia.com/cms/huangye/2007 ... e_149.html
It is clear that the so called ciangciu in Northern malaysia mostly came from this kind of Amoy area who speak hu and lu.
We have other kind of ciangciu people like 诏安 ,东山 ,南靖 in Melaka and Sarawak.
Just say your ancestors came from hai chhng1 will do,not chhong1.
www.haicang.com
仰 should be giang instead of giong.We can easily know the vowel like ionn,iang,u instead of i are using in this area but we need infomartion about the first tone,eighth tone ,sandhi in this area.Take a trip will be the only option instaed of waiting for somebody to write an article.We have people in penang came from this area as well
http://penangmedia.com/cms/huangye/2007 ... e_149.html
It is clear that the so called ciangciu in Northern malaysia mostly came from this kind of Amoy area who speak hu and lu.
We have other kind of ciangciu people like 诏安 ,东山 ,南靖 in Melaka and Sarawak.
Just say your ancestors came from hai chhng1 will do,not chhong1.
www.haicang.com
Last edited by ong on Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
Yes, that's correct.Also interesting is that on my great-grandfather's grave, a particular phrase comes after the "standard" list of children and grandchildren, and this phrase is similar to the one at the same spot in Elmer's ancestor's grave:
等仝立石
Am I right in thinking that this means "... and others together erected this stone". If so, then it makes a lot of sense that this phrase occurs at this point.
I think you may be thinking of my maternal grandfather's place of origin (tiann boo / tia~ bO). This latest one is my paternal great-grandfather, so quite a different branch of the family. I have two paternal great-grandfathers: this one is my father's paternal grandfather. My father's maternal grandfather would also be a paternal grandfather of mine, you see, because he's my father.ong wrote:This is not hanzi you give last time ...
Because Penang Baba society was so matriarchal, at each generation we know very little about the father's side of anything. I know less about my father's father's family than my father's mother's family. For example, I only know my father's father's brothers and sisters, not their (first) cousins, but I know my father's mother's cousins and even their *second* cousins. Similarly (one generation further up), I know his mother's mother's sisters, but absolutely nothing about his mother's father's siblings.
On my latest trip to Malaysia - Dec 2007 and Jan 2008 - I got my hands on a copy of a photograph which demonstrates this matriarchal society beautifully. It must have been taken somewhere around the 1900's. There is a grand old woman seated in the middle - my great-great-grandmother. She had 4 daughters, all married at the time of the photograph. On one side of her are seated two of her daughters, and on the other side the other two, and behind these young women (all in their 20's or 30's) are their husbands. On the far left hand side is the eldest granddaughter of the matriarch in the middle, the child of one of the young couples. She's just a young girl. One of these young couples is of course my great-grandparents.
As I mentioned in an earlier posting, because of "cin cue", all these 4 couples and their children lived in one big house together, under the rule of the matriarch, in Love Lane, Penang, near the Convent.
As more and more grandchildren were born and grew up, the family got too big, and my great-grandparents moved out, with their 4 daughters, into their own big house. There, each of the daughters got married, and they and their husbands (and the children, as they were born) lived all together in the big house. They had one son too, but when he got married, he had to move out, and live with his wife's parents and sisters.
.So, for two whole generations, this pattern was consistently practiced: all the sisters and their husbands lived together, and the children all grew up playing with their maternal cousins in the same house; the exact opposite of the traditional Chinese patriarchal society.
Sim.