Chinese characters for ka1-nng5 (complete/whole)

[niuc]

Hi all

In Hokkien, "complete"/"whole" can be 完全 uan5-cuan5, 十全 cap8-cng5 or ka1-nng5. What are the characters for ka1-nng5? Thanks.

niuc

[Mark Yong]

Or, for that matter, the Penang version kā-liâu ... 到了 or 告了?

[niuc]

Hi Mark

Thanks for the reply. However, 到了 is ka3-liau2 (kā-liâu in sandhi form) and its meaning is "all" rather than "complete". Synonym for 到了 is 攏總 long2-cong2. If I understand Douglas' dictionary correctly (since it doesn't list Chinese characters), ka1-nng5 is 歸團. 歸 kui1 for ka1 is quite easy to link since kui1 means whole (整 in Mandarin), e.g. 歸間厝 kui1-king1-chu3 (整間屋子) = whole house. But 團 thuan5 for nng5 is quite different although the tone matches and the meaning does relate quite well.

There is a Hokkien saying: sui2 bue7-cap8-cng5, khiap4-si3 bo5-ka1-nng5, meaning there is no perfect beauty neither complete ugliness (usually about human). I'd love to know the 'proper' characters for ka1-nng5 (and I also forget how to write that khiap4! ).

[Mark Yong]

According to 閩南話漳腔辭典, k'iap4 si3 is written as (疒+去) 勢. 閩南方言與古文同源辭典 defines (疒+去) as 身體不好, but does not infer that it can be used in the context of ugly. 閩南方言誌 writes it as 怯, but this book is unreliable as a benzi source. I would go for (疒+去), but suspect that the si3 should either be 視 or 示, reason being 勢 is pronounced se3 in the 漳州 patois.

I am not so sure about kui1 being 歸. The above two references cite it as 規.

[niuc]

Mark, thanks for the info. 閩南方言詞典 does list kui1 as 規 also. It even has kui1-nng5 as 規圇, although listed ka1-nng5 as [交崙]. IMO kui1-nng5 and ka1-nng5 most probably share the same characters.

勢 can be se3 or si3, depends on context. 視 and 示 are pronounced si7, not si3.

[Mark Yong]

niuc wrote:
閩南方言詞典 does list kui1 as 規 also. It even has kui1-nng5 as 規圇, although listed ka1-nng5 as [交崙].

Are you referring to "閩南方言大辭典" by 周長楫? I have a copy of it. Regrettably, he is not very disciplined in using the correct benzi, often substituting in the Mandarin equivalents.

[niuc]

Sorry I typed the title wrongly. It should be 廈門方言詞典 (現代漢語方言大詞典-分卷), 李榮 主編, 周長楫 編纂. So it seems to be related to 閩南方言大辭典 although they are not the same dictionary.

[Mark Yong]

niuc wrote:
There is a Hokkien saying: sui2 bue7-cap8-cng5, khiap4-si3 bo5-ka1-nng5,...

I suppose cap8-cng5 is 十全, where cng5 is the 白讀 baidu for 全?

[niuc]

Yes, cap8-cng5 is baidu of 十全; wendu is sip8-cuan5 (also a kind of Chinese herbal tonic??).

[Mark Yong]

The problem with 規 for kŭi is that the meaning does not come out right.

I ran through a few of my dictionaries. One possible candidate is 舉, which does carry the meaning of 皆 and 全. Example phrases provided in the 辭源 include:

1. 君舉不信群臣乎.
2. 舉世皆然兮，余將誰告.
3. 舉世無異說.

The main problem is the pronunciation - the 反切 fanqie is given as 居語, which would render it as kŭ, not kŭi.