Traditional Chinese gods

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
Mark Yong
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:52 pm

Re: Traditional Chinese gods

Post by Mark Yong »

SimL wrote:
Similarly, to this day, I find it very difficult to use the word "lu" (=you) to an elder - it was considered *very* rude, when I was young. For example, in speaking to my grandmother (when I was young, she's now long gone), it was totally impossible to ask "lu be khi bo?" (= do you want to go?). Instead, one had to say "a-ma be khi bo?" (= does grandmother want to go?). This was when asking her directly, not when asking someone else *about* her. Perhaps this too has changed over time - I don't know what the situation is with "lu" in Malaysia and Indonesia nowadays. My other relatives who migrated to Australia all seem very comfortable saying "lu" to their elders - I'm the only one who still doesn't like doing it.
niuc wrote:
Our variant of Hokkien has no problem using "ly2" (you) to an elder, in this case much like Mandarin, so we would say "a-ma, ly ber khy bo?" or "a-ma, ly ber khy a-mai?". Without "a-ma" it is rude, without "ly" it sounds like asking someone else about her, although it's still acceptable.
From my experience in Penang, the situation that applies to niuc's description in Indonesia also applies to Penang today, too - i.e., one would say, e.g. 阿嬷, 汝食飽未? ă-mâ, lû chiăk pâ bŭe? The elder would always be addressed by his/her title before the . And perhaps as a mark of reverence to the elders, using the previous example, the words 阿嬷 ă-mâ would somehow be emphasised (i.e. pronounced louder and more 'dragged out') - as if to 'downplay' the that follows it... or perhaps it is my imagination.

niuc wrote:
The more polite terms for "bo`2" (wife) are 家內 "ke1-lai7"
That sounds like the Penang Hokkien equivalent of 厝內 ch'û lăi. I hear it used sometimes in Penang, but in more casual settings, bO2 seems to be used more liberally.
niuc
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:23 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Traditional Chinese gods

Post by niuc »

Mark Yong wrote:... And perhaps as a mark of reverence to the elders, using the previous example, the words 阿嬷 ă-mâ would somehow be emphasised (i.e. pronounced louder and more 'dragged out') - as if to 'downplay' the that follows it... or perhaps it is my imagination.
It may be true psychologically. And the last vowel can be pronounced longer ('a-maaa') as endearment.
Andrew

Re: Traditional Chinese gods

Post by Andrew »

In Amoy Hokkien, can the plural lin be used as a polite way of addressing a single person, in analogy with some European languages?
niuc
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:23 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Traditional Chinese gods

Post by niuc »

Hi Andrew
Andrew wrote:In Amoy Hokkien, can the plural lin be used as a polite way of addressing a single person, in analogy with some European languages?
A bit similar but not exactly. In my variant, we don't use plural to address a single person but we use plural to form possesive pronoun in certain cases e.g. 'lin ma-ma' for "your mother" is consider more polite than 'ly e ma-ma'; 'gun nai' (nai = chu-lai) for "my house" is better than 'gua e chu-lai'. If I am not mistaken, Amoy Hokkien is similar to mine in this case.
duaaagiii
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:17 am

Re: Traditional Chinese gods

Post by duaaagiii »

SimL wrote: Similarly, to this day, I find it very difficult to use the word "lu" (=you) to an elder - it was considered *very* rude, when I was young. For example, in speaking to my grandmother (when I was young, she's now long gone), it was totally impossible to ask "lu be khi bo?" (= do you want to go?). Instead, one had to say "a-ma be khi bo?" (= does grandmother want to go?). This was when asking her directly, not when asking someone else *about* her. Perhaps this too has changed over time - I don't know what the situation is with "lu" in Malaysia and Indonesia nowadays. My other relatives who migrated to Australia all seem very comfortable saying "lu" to their elders - I'm the only one who still doesn't like doing it.
In Taiwan, the inclusive first person plural pronoun lan2 is used as a polite second person pronoun, both singular and plural.

Examples:
  • Tshiann2-mng7 lan2 kui3-senn3?
    What is your last name?
  • Tshiann2-mng7 lan2 to2-ui7 (beh4 tshue7)?
    May I ask who's calling?
niuc
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:23 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Traditional Chinese gods

Post by niuc »

duaaagiii wrote: In Taiwan, the inclusive first person plural pronoun lan2 is used as a polite second person pronoun, both singular and plural.
It's really interesting.
SimL
Posts: 1407
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:33 am
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Traditional Chinese gods

Post by SimL »

SimL wrote:I know that my father used "ta-pO-lang" instead of "ang", but I don't know what he used instead of "bO".
I asked my parents a while back, but forgot to post to the Forum. To my surprise, they said that the word was (logically enough): "ca-bO-lang"!!!

To be honest, I don't recall anyone ever using this term when I was young.
SimL
niuc
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:23 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Traditional Chinese gods

Post by niuc »

SimL wrote: I asked my parents a while back, but forgot to post to the Forum. To my surprise, they said that the word was (logically enough): "ca-bO-lang"!!!
Yeah, it is logical and seems to match 'ta-pO-lang'. However, I seldom heard anyone using 'ca-bO-lang' that way, compared to 'ta-pO-lang'. And interestingly I feel that the former is not as polite as the latter. It is also used to mean "women" more often than the latter to mean "men".

Other terms such as 丈夫 'tiong7-hu1' (h), 'ang1-sai3' (h), 夫人 'hu1-jin5' (w), 太太 'thai3-thai3' (w) are considered (very) polite and formal. Informally, in Bagan variant many people say 老ㄟ 'lau7_e0' (e neutralized, meaning "oldie") for "husband".
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