Is Cantonese a harsh language?

[James Campbell]

Mark,

I have to disagree in some areas. If you read into some morphophonology, you'll find across many of the world's languages that points of articulation for consonants pronounced in succession tend to merge, and not just for articulation, but in manner as well (cross-feature). One good example to look at is Korean (for example hap-ni-ta is read hamnida, and ak-ma is read ang-ma). There is plenty of this happening in English as well (for example, non-voiced alveolar stops and fricatives followed by palatal approximates or vowels pull the stops and fricatives back and merge into a postalveolar fricative, as in the pronunciation of 'tion' in action or 'sion' in succession).

>NG doesn't sound very good if a nasal (M, N, NG) ... comes after it

Normally, a velar nasal (ng) followed by another velar, whether nasal or not is very natural and should not be unpleasant to the ears. In fact, most languages merge sounds in this way indicating preference.

It helps sound better if the sounds in succession belong to the same points of articulation such as palatals (/c/+/j/), velars (/ng/+/k/ or /g/ or /w/), alveolars (/n/+/t/ or /d/), (/t/+/s/ or English /r/), (/d/ + /z/), (/s/ + /t/), labials (/m/ + /b/ or /p/). It's more natural to put stops before fricatives (the creation of affricates) rather than the other way around. And when it occurs across features, it becomes problematic for some speakers, such as /k/ + /s/ is a lot more easier than the unnatural /s/ + /k/.

But since Cantonese p, t, k stops occur only in syllable final position and are unreleased, there is an unavoidable addition of a glottal stop /?/ before any following vowel. This creates an overall choppy feeling to the language. The reason why you don't hear this in Minnan is because morphophonemic changes are taking place already. For example, 'an-tsuaN' is read 'annuaN'. Occlusive endings are reduced to glottal stop in many cases, depending on the following vowel or consonant, and therefore the language sounds overall much smoother between words.

French and English make use of ellision between words, so that in many cases syllable- or word-final consonants undergo phonemic change with the first consonant of the following word, making these languages sound much smoother. For example, the natural pronunciation of 'would you' is more like 'woodzhu'.

Mak Zai 麥仔 wrote:

The Min3nan2/man5nam4 閩南language or what Taiwanese people call tai2yu5/toi4yu5 台語

I can't be sure what your tone numbers are referring to. Taiwanese people call Minnan as ban2 lam5 oe7 which is read as ban1 lam7 oe7, and taiyu as tai5 gu2 which is read as tai7 gu2 (Zhangzhou/Tainan accent) or tai7 gi2 (Quanzhou/Taipei accent).

James

[Joe]

I think Cantonese is fun to speak and it has alot of slang. If I say "eat banana" to someone who speak contonese, he would know what I mean. but to someone who speak Mandarin they don't have a clue.

[yue]

joe, does "eat banana" means suck my d......?

[noodle]

Well what a boring topic of conversation. I'm english but can also speak thai, cantonese, english & french. I have no problems with cantonese whatsover. It's a great language for expressing yourself and having fun and it's got so many colourful expressions but maybe some hong kongers do sound as thought they are arguing when they are talking. Actually i think Cantonese has got one of the most richest and colourful range of slang expressions of all the languages on the planet. i always like to joke in any language and cantonese is as much fun as any other language when you are in the mood to be a pain in the ass or a sweet talking hustler.

[Sunset]

I have leanrt cantonese for about 7 years now and am fluent, but I am not chinese. i must be fluent cause people are always asking if I was born in Hong kong cause I sound so local.
"Harsh" this word is totally subjective. There is no right or wrong. One thing I have to say is, besides harshness, the more important issue is of cantonese grammar and how different it is. Personally I cant find a parrallel in other languages, not even other chinese dialects. And the grammar really influences my native language. If you look a above, I wrote

"Harsh this word" - Cantonese grammar. It should be "The word harsh". Even though I am white and native english speaker I often now use Cantonese grammar in English. just by accident, not on purpose.When I speak, people think I am not even a local!

So be careful, the grammar of cantonese can ruin your other languages!

Oh, let me tell you what I really love in Cantonese. The grammar is soo much more flexible than english. You can just throw a few words together, use lots of "Je..........je....." to connect your sentences and it is already very local!

[:-)]

Cantonese is the 12th most widely spoken language on earth comparable to the numbers who speak French (the 11th most widely spoken language on Earth). With so many northern Chinese learning Cantonese the numbers will surpass French in ranking in the very near future.

If Cantonese was such a harsh language, then why do so many people speak it or want to learn to speak it?

I think Black English is harsh but many wannabes want to learn this language but I don't because it's an unexpressive language in my opinion. When a Homeboy speaks to another Homeboy, it sounds like they are always arguing but to them they're not.

Those who say Cantonese speakers sound like they are always arguing may actually be witnessing an actual arguement. To me, an arguement in Mandarin is just as harsh as an arguement in Cantonese as is in any language. Poetry in Mandarin sounds just as pleasant as poetry in Cantonese. And sadness is similarly expressed in both Cantonese & Mandarin.

I believe the rest of world only gets a glimpse of Cantonese through the lenses of the fast-paced society of Hong Kong. They've yet tasted the other flavors of Cantonese from the countryside which is a variation of Cantonese which is much slower, smoother, relaxed, and not in your face.

[nidhai]

As someone who speaks both Cantonese & English fluently (but not Mandarin), I find these two languages are not entirely compatible. I've heard of many anecdoctal reports of how people from HK who speak Cantonese who cannot adjust to NOrth American culture because of this linguistic barrier, as opposed to someone who speaks Mandarin who nonethless could acculturate relatively easier in spite of a greater cultural gulf between mainland China and NOrth America.