Ah. Thanks for this correction. I wasn't aware of "chang-chui" in Penang.Andrew wrote:In Penang both 'chang-ek' and 'chang-chui' are used. Douglas says that 'chang-chui' simply means to dash water on something, whereas 'chang-ek' specifically refers to dashing water on the body.
Variants!
Re: Variants!
Re: Variants!
The article on North Sumatran Hokkien gives "tua-sin" 带身.Ah-bin wrote:...Being pregnant....
Taiwanese 有身 u-sin Penang pEN-kiaN 病囝
The most common word in Penang that I used was "tua pat-tO" 大腹肚, though I knew 病囝 too. I understand the distinction which niuc explained, but I think in our usage, 病囝 was just the pregnancy in general, even when not referring to the pains and problems associated with it.
Re: Variants!
Hi Sim
You're welcome. Sumatra and Penang (or Peninsular Malaysia) did share many cultural and historical similarities. In Bagansiapiapi, Malaysia was often called 'tang1-si3' 東勢 and Medan (North Sumatra) 'sai1-si3' 西勢, since the ships from Bagan headed east towards Malaysia (Malacca) and west (actually Northwest) towards North Sumatra (Tanjung Balai, then continued by car/train to Medan).
Your detailed description of the well being half inside the bathroom and half in the kitchen matches what I knew. Indeed it was not easy even to bath (compare to shower today!). Bigger children (9/10 years and above) usually had to bath directly from the well. I didn't like it especially during long dry season when water level was so low, could be around 10 meter under. During heavy rain days, it could be less than one meter underground (not from the upper brim of the well's wall). Btw wells there were rectangular or squarish, I had never seen a round one.
You're welcome. Sumatra and Penang (or Peninsular Malaysia) did share many cultural and historical similarities. In Bagansiapiapi, Malaysia was often called 'tang1-si3' 東勢 and Medan (North Sumatra) 'sai1-si3' 西勢, since the ships from Bagan headed east towards Malaysia (Malacca) and west (actually Northwest) towards North Sumatra (Tanjung Balai, then continued by car/train to Medan).
Your detailed description of the well being half inside the bathroom and half in the kitchen matches what I knew. Indeed it was not easy even to bath (compare to shower today!). Bigger children (9/10 years and above) usually had to bath directly from the well. I didn't like it especially during long dry season when water level was so low, could be around 10 meter under. During heavy rain days, it could be less than one meter underground (not from the upper brim of the well's wall). Btw wells there were rectangular or squarish, I had never seen a round one.
Although 帶身 'tua3-sin1' and 有身 'u7-sin1' have the same meaning, I feel that they are slightly different, as the former tends to be a fact (more passive) while the latter a process (more active). But may be that's just my own perception.SimL wrote:The article on North Sumatran Hokkien gives "tua-sin" 带身.
It is very common in Bagan Hokkien too, but it is considered rude.The most common word in Penang that I used was "tua pat-tO" 大腹肚
Re: Variants!
Does anyone here watch Hua Hee Dai channel 333 on astro ?
I hate the two hosts in 'Hua Hee karaoke' who speak 'le' for you.
They should learn how to speak amoy hokkien which is closest to standard hokkien if they want to be hosts.
Instead they spoke mandarin, southern Msian hokkien and malay (eg. suka). Their hokkien is horrendous and they're not suitable to act as hosts on a hokkien channel.
I hate the two hosts in 'Hua Hee karaoke' who speak 'le' for you.
They should learn how to speak amoy hokkien which is closest to standard hokkien if they want to be hosts.
Instead they spoke mandarin, southern Msian hokkien and malay (eg. suka). Their hokkien is horrendous and they're not suitable to act as hosts on a hokkien channel.
Re: Variants!
Hi Niuc,
Once again, thank you for all the additional information.
The low level of the water during the dry season was quite different from what my mother experienced. It must have been a rather low-lying area where my mother's village was, because she remarked that they only had to dig a very short distance, anywhere, and there would be water, "just a few feet down". 10 metres when one is a child must have seemed like an immense distance to you!
I seem to remember my parents not being able to agree on the shape of their wells (square or round). I'll have to ask them again, and also check up a photograph I took of one when I went with my parents to Malaysia, to look at their old childhood spots. The village where my mother's family "retreated to" was near Sitawan, in the state of Perak, but it no longer exists nowadays, because it was torn down by the government during the "Malayan Emergency", in connection with the "Briggs' Plan" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briggs_Plan). In any case, we were in another modern village close by, and my mother called excitedly to me to come and look at a well in someone's backyard, because it was of the standard design of wells in her youth. My father at that moment also recognized it as similar to those of his youth. I then took a photo of it. So, if I check up on the photo, I'll be able to say whether Malaysian wells in my parents' youth were round or square.
Once again, thank you for all the additional information.
The low level of the water during the dry season was quite different from what my mother experienced. It must have been a rather low-lying area where my mother's village was, because she remarked that they only had to dig a very short distance, anywhere, and there would be water, "just a few feet down". 10 metres when one is a child must have seemed like an immense distance to you!
I seem to remember my parents not being able to agree on the shape of their wells (square or round). I'll have to ask them again, and also check up a photograph I took of one when I went with my parents to Malaysia, to look at their old childhood spots. The village where my mother's family "retreated to" was near Sitawan, in the state of Perak, but it no longer exists nowadays, because it was torn down by the government during the "Malayan Emergency", in connection with the "Briggs' Plan" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briggs_Plan). In any case, we were in another modern village close by, and my mother called excitedly to me to come and look at a well in someone's backyard, because it was of the standard design of wells in her youth. My father at that moment also recognized it as similar to those of his youth. I then took a photo of it. So, if I check up on the photo, I'll be able to say whether Malaysian wells in my parents' youth were round or square.
Re: Variants!
Hi Sim
Yes, 10 meters did appear as very deep then. Thanks for the info about "Briggs Plan", it must be upsetting for the residents to be forced to move.
Yes, 10 meters did appear as very deep then. Thanks for the info about "Briggs Plan", it must be upsetting for the residents to be forced to move.
Re: Variants!
Hi Niuc,
I'm sure it was very distressing. They were put into the so-called "New Villages"" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Village). However, I would like to add that this was a different "age", before the greater awareness of "Human Rights" as we know it today. Without in any way failing to acknowledge the trauma and grief they might have felt about being forcibly re-located, I do wonder whether people of those former times were less outraged by such an action, because they never even knew that they might have some rights: the government ordered something to be done, and they simply followed.
It's a bit similar to babies dying at childbirth or soon after. In the old days, this was very common; a fact of life which everyone was aware of. Nowadays, it's much less common (in modern, "industrialized" countries, at any rate). So, (again) while in no way trying to deny the pain that the parents of the time must have felt about the death of their newly-born child, I also wonder whether it was of a different order of magnitude from the pain felt by parents nowadays, if something like that happens to them.
SimL
PS. Sad to see that our "classic-spammer" is back
I'm sure it was very distressing. They were put into the so-called "New Villages"" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Village). However, I would like to add that this was a different "age", before the greater awareness of "Human Rights" as we know it today. Without in any way failing to acknowledge the trauma and grief they might have felt about being forcibly re-located, I do wonder whether people of those former times were less outraged by such an action, because they never even knew that they might have some rights: the government ordered something to be done, and they simply followed.
It's a bit similar to babies dying at childbirth or soon after. In the old days, this was very common; a fact of life which everyone was aware of. Nowadays, it's much less common (in modern, "industrialized" countries, at any rate). So, (again) while in no way trying to deny the pain that the parents of the time must have felt about the death of their newly-born child, I also wonder whether it was of a different order of magnitude from the pain felt by parents nowadays, if something like that happens to them.
SimL
PS. Sad to see that our "classic-spammer" is back
Re: Variants!
Hi Sim
Thank you for the info. Indeed we take many things for granted nowadays.
Thank you for the info. Indeed we take many things for granted nowadays.
Re: Variants!
I've just remembered one of my Hokkien dictionaries has a list of words peculiar to Taiwanese. Many of them are either direct sound loans from Japanese like
O1-ba1-sang2 used the same way as "auntie" in M'sia
O1-ji1-sang2 "Uncle" used the same way as "uncle" (or should I say "unker"?) in M'sia
O1-thok4-bai2 "motorbike" (from "autobike")
others are calques from Japanese kanji compounds:
khau-cho - bank account, from Japanese kooza 口座
liau-li - cooking, from Japanese ryoori 料理 (this one has even made it into Taiwanese Mandarin) it exists as the verb "to manage" in other types of Hokkien
others are just different native Hokkien ways to express things:
tian-hong 電風 a fan as opposed to (Penang) tian-siN 電扇
tang-si 當時 when? as opposed to (Penang) ki-si 幾是. This last one I think is from Cantonese, as the first character is pronounced "kui" elsewhere. Old Cantonese (pre-1940's) used to pronounce it "ki" rather than "kei".
O1-ba1-sang2 used the same way as "auntie" in M'sia
O1-ji1-sang2 "Uncle" used the same way as "uncle" (or should I say "unker"?) in M'sia
O1-thok4-bai2 "motorbike" (from "autobike")
others are calques from Japanese kanji compounds:
khau-cho - bank account, from Japanese kooza 口座
liau-li - cooking, from Japanese ryoori 料理 (this one has even made it into Taiwanese Mandarin) it exists as the verb "to manage" in other types of Hokkien
others are just different native Hokkien ways to express things:
tian-hong 電風 a fan as opposed to (Penang) tian-siN 電扇
tang-si 當時 when? as opposed to (Penang) ki-si 幾是. This last one I think is from Cantonese, as the first character is pronounced "kui" elsewhere. Old Cantonese (pre-1940's) used to pronounce it "ki" rather than "kei".
-
Andrew
Re: Variants!
It is also pronounced ti-si?, so might it be related to the ti- in tiang/ti-tiang?Ah-bin wrote:tang-si 當時 when? as opposed to (Penang) ki-si 幾是. This last one I think is from Cantonese, as the first character is pronounced "kui" elsewhere. Old Cantonese (pre-1940's) used to pronounce it "ki" rather than "kei".