Andrew wrote:I have consulted the dictionaries at my college (School of Oriental & African Studies) library, and confirm that both the 1899 Douglas (with characters) and Campbell give 抑是 for "or".
Thanks for this.
niuc wrote:Yes, my variant uses 'kha4' more often than 'cia4'. Is it 'kah4' in Penang Hokkien?
Yes, without aspiration, but I'm not sure if it's a ru-tone. It never occurs at the end of a phrase, and (so?) there is no "-h", but I think the vowel itself sounds rather short, so I think it's a "kah4" -> ka8 [sandhi-tone] (short vowel, but no "-h"), rather than "ka2" -> "ka1" [sandhi-tone] (normal vowel, no "-h"). As far as I can tell, in my variant of Penang Hokkien, the actual pitch level of tone-1 and tone-8 seem identical - it's only the presence or absence of the final consonant (and length of vowel) which distinguishes them.
The sound quality of the first is not too bad, but (sadly) that of the second is quite bad (though the bad quality might be expected, given the location where the clips were made). The lady is linguistically certainly very gifted!
My main reason for posting these is that in the second video she says "thin1(sandhi-tone)-thai3/7" (1:07). This is well-known for "to wait" in Penang Hokkien - I'd venture the opinion that it's more common than "tan2". I've never heard it in other forms of Hokkien. Anyone have an idea what the hanzi might be? Also, what is the hanzi for the "-hu" in "bak-hu"?
As I said in connection with the first ("Hokkien Speeding" rap) clip, I do like the mixing of Hokkien and other languages, for the sake of creating a humorous effect. Here she rhymes "bak-hu" with "beautifu" and "wonderfu" and "che'gu", and she rhymes "thin-thai" with "bye-bye" .
[Ah-bin: in case you didn't know, "che'gu" is Malay for "teacher".]
My main reason for posting these is that in the second video she says "thin1(sandhi-tone)-thai3/7" (1:07). This is well-known for "to wait" in Penang Hokkien - I'd venture the opinion that it's more common than "tan2". I've never heard it in other forms of Hokkien. Anyone have an idea what the hanzi might be? Also, what is the hanzi for the "-hu" in "bak-hu"?
Could be
等待 - téng-thāi in POJ both characters mean "to wait" it's a very literary word.
I found 肉脯 for bah-hu.
In Taiwan I learnt 肉鬆 rou4song1 as the word for the same thing in Mdn. That suggests to me that in Taiwan the word 肉鬆 (bah-sang) is more common than bah-hu.
She has definitely won me over with her Hokkien-rap sales pitch.
Thank you! This one is great! I guess it really does suggest that Penang Hokkien is more alive than Taiwanese... (I haven't seen many modern, hip Taiwanese youngsters producing (even) short clips in Taiwanese).
Ah-bin wrote:Could be 等待 - téng-thāi in POJ both characters mean "to wait" it's a very literary word.
Wow, imagine Penang Hokkien preserving a very literary word as the common way to say "wait" . I hope others feel moved to express their opinion on this one. I've always said it with aspiration on the initial consonant of the first syllable, but that could easily be interference from the aspiration on the initial consonant of the second syllable, or just plain mis-learning/mis-hearing on my part. I can always ask my parents whether they aspirate it.
I’ve updated all the inputs for “Hokkien Speeding”. Many thanks for the help so far. Many of the proposed solutions were brilliant, and I would never have been able to find them out without your help here.
There are only 5 outstanding questions. I guess they are hard, as no one has answered them.
Is this really “chong5”/ 衝, as in "to rush"? It sounds like "siong" when I replay it.
B: Fourth verse
Pager 若響著愛{忍}
pager na hiang tioh ai {lun}
If your pager rings you have to {???}
What is the last syllable - character, pronunciation, and meaning?
C. Fifth verse
若汝無細膩
na li bo sue-ji {??} [就]有人倒 {liam/liang mi} toh u lang to {???} there’ll be someone {knocked over}
a. What are the first two characters of the last line, and what does it mean?
b. Is the last syllable “to2” 倒 = “lie down, topple over” with the meaning “knocked over”?
D. Sixth verse
Andrew took a guess at “heN, heN! license tioh {balik kho}” with no known meaning. Does anyone else have any other suggestions?
One possibility is "balik" (= Malay "to go back") + "kho2" (= "to an exam") = "to have to re-sit your driving test, because you lost your licence for using your mobile while driving".
E. Last verse
不要急著把命送
bù yào jí-zhù bă mìng sòng
Is my translation “Don’t hurry and lose your life” of the Mandarin correct?
There seems to be two words pronounced "a-si" in Hokkien. One meaning "or" and one meaning "also". They both even occur in the "tong-kim e gin-a" clip from "I Not Stupid 2".
15. hei-shou-dang a-si zhu-lian-bang? 黑手黨{XX}竹聯邦?
With the Mafia or the Triads?
20. cho li-e kiaN a-si kau sue! 做汝的囝{XX}夠衰!
It's (also) a curse to be your child!
These are quite different in meaning, and after weighing up all the different suggestions here, I've decided to transcribe the first ("or") with 抑是 and the second ("also") with 也是.
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I would even venture the opinion that Hokkien speakers might have found that having two different concepts which are pronounced the same way to be a bit of a nuisance (even if they play different roles in the sentence, and hence could be distinguished from more than just semantic context), and hence 'evolved' the pronunciation of the one meaning "also" into "ma-si" (removing the homophone and hence the ambiguity). This one I will transcribe as 嘛是. It also occurs the clip:
.