Penang Hokkien

[SimL]

Hi,

Does anyone know the hanzi for "pan(g?)-jiu", the normal Penang Hokkien word for "handkerchief"?

Thanks.

[tangoloonokongo]

Hello ladies and gents.

This section of Penang Hokkien has been quiet recently.
Anybody still out there?

I have lived in China for more than 8 years, and found many words and discovered many strange words that my grandparents spoke that In thought were funny were in fact bona-fide Hokkien words. Maybe some can do some cross referencing and come out with alternative explanations to test their validity. Multi-lingual dictionaries should be used but with analysis and afterthoughts. In my mind, it would give more creditability to this forum.

Example. To-je, "dou che" ("to distrub" in English); ta-pi, "ta-pi" ("tetapi" in Malay, meaning "but"); lun-ding, ("runding" in Malay); xu-ding ("soothing" in English); pek-tay, ("batik in Malay, because batik is made from a basic white cloth); la-li ("lari" in Malay, because la li sai is actually running race in Chinese);

and most interestingly, I came across the southern Philippine phrase of "pu si . . " when I watched the episode on Malaysia's Astro on the murder of Benigno Aquino. This phrase was actually used as evidence to trial and convict the murderers. It sounds like "kill".

After reading the book of Zheng He's fleet, I came across a suggestion by the author that Peru is not Spanish as many would want others to believe. For me, it is Pek U, because Peru is always shrouded in white cloud. It is a direct translation from Hokkien dialect. It is an interesting book that also suggest Columbus was not the first one to discover America. It really breaks glass houses especially those who were educated in the colonial days.

I hope, this will electrify everybody.

[aokh1979]

Hi tangoloonokongo:

You have an interesting nickname.

The forum is still alive, I suppose most people are just occupied by work. I check new post everyday though I do not really contribute any lately. I want all my posts to make sense, to be useful rather therefore I often spend time making sure the content is valid, or at least logical before I submit any.

The story about Peru is indeed very interesting and encouraging. I am going to do some reading over the week-end ! Do come back.


Regards,
aokh1979

[Andrew]

There are Malay words found in Hokkien/Taiwan because of reverse migration by Chinese who returned from Malaya.

Gavin Menzies' books are entertaining but considered to be fantasy even by Chinese scholars.

[SimL]

Gavin Menzies' books are entertaining but considered to be fantasy even by Chinese scholars.

Some academic (a sinologist) told me that Menzies is not well respected in academic circles.

Now, that's not necessarily a good criterion to go by (any group of people, including academics, can be closed-minded about a particular topic - especially if it's their 'pet topic'), but in this case, I think that many sinologists (being interested in and positive towards Chinese culture) would welcome news about China being advanced in a particular aspect of history which hadn't previously been recognized.

But they don't. They think it's just sensationalist stuff, without much serious research. If I remember correctly, the author doesn't even read or write Chinese.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Menzies

I put myself in a similar position. Being self-identified "Chinese" I am 'proud' (hopefully in a non-chauvinistic way) of the long cultural continuity of Chinese civilization, and of its amazing contributions to human culture, many of them at such an early stage of history. I would certainly be quite happy if it were really true that Zheng He reached America at such an early stage. But this has to be based on fact, not on just a desire to see more 'achievements' added to the story of Chinese history.

[Ah-bin]

Well done Sim, that really is a good overview of the way sinologists think.

As for me, if you give me an original source I'll believe it, but a couple of words that sound slightly similar is not convincing, you can do the same with any languages. Maori and Estonian have words that sound similar and mean similar things, but it doesn't mean they are related.

A Chinese linguist once told me "you can spend hours going through any Chinese dictionary to support whatever kooky theory you might have on the relatedness of words and languages".

I saw a book in Taiwan about how Eygptian hieroglyphs are actually Hokkien...very amusing, but complete nonsense.

And yes Menzies reads no Chinese, and is known around my university for making up quotations from conversations with people he has never met.

As for colonial education, isn't suggesting that a Chinese "discovered" America just as "colonial" as suggesting Columbus did it? I'm sure the people who were living in the Americas at the time didn't need to be "discovered".

[tangoloonokongo]

I saw the CCTV 4 news on the recent tsunami in Japan, and the Chinese word "jie mek". This is very similar to "che beh" which means completely finished. I asked my Chinese friends, and they confirmed the meaning.

Any comments?
Anybody?