Vietnamese is sino-tibetan Part 2

[qrasy]

Han Chinese merely prefers to the culture, language, and nationality, not the blood. It was how the Yue surived under the Han's invasion. If they did not claim themselves to be the Hans, they would get killed by a whole family.

The same thing happened in Northeast, where 'Hans' are more similar to Manchus tham NorthCentral.
Most Hans have the same Y gene, NorthCentral, Northeast and South. It means that they have the same grand-grand...-father. (I write 'most' since the SeMu [non-East Asians] descendants hid their identity [by changing their surnames, but it's impossible to change Y genes] and claimed that they were Chinese because they are respected in Yuan age, but hated very much in the Ming Age)
If their autosomal genes are not very similar to original Chinese (I guess the North-Central but not Northeast), it means that in old time Chinese did not care who the female they married (maybe: as long as they are Mongoloids hehehe...).

[Guest]

How was this "Chinese outflow" related to this topic?

Ethnic Chinese are called "Hoa" in Vietnam.
In Ming there were 500000 Chinese trevelled there. I once wondered why there are only about 1 million Hoa in Vietnam Was this due to the large outward flow?

"Africans were forced to speak English and thus lost their original language" was reasonable, but if you say "Vietnamese originally spoke Sino-Tibetan but were forced to speak Mon-Khmer" it's not very logical.

There were no reason to do that. (Were there Khmer empire ruling over North Vietnam for quite long a time?)

they became vietnamese

[Guest]

The Indonesian can also be the Yue but they were immigrated there 5000 years ago because they by 5 to 10% shared vocab with North Vietnam.
I guess you know that Turks descended from East Asian, they mixed with the indigenous people where they migrated. In Southeast Asia, maybe there were Dravidians/Negros, so Indonesians could also be descendants of Yues (although very impure).

About the shared vocabs, even the Chinese/Tibetan has much to do with Indonesian. Bataks in Indonesia share some words from Altaic. Also, there are some 'shared' words from Chinese and English (although those may not be true cognates), Japanese with Mon-Khmer.
Shared without shared grammars actually means nothing.

The linguists used only the nowadays vocab and traced the ancient Chinese vocab. They knew that Vietnam belonged to monKhmer, language only, not the genes.
So how do you think they could share language? Languages can descend to non-related people but how?

Most population from South China are genetically related to the Vietnamese. The Vietnamese are proud to be the same common ancestors with the South Chinese people, not the North Chinese.
Why are they proud (or why are you proud?)? What is so special with South Chinese?

there are different sharing vocabs and loan words. The South Chinese brought the Chinese as a whole to world attention in economics, cultures, and everything. The Northern did not have any popular culture except for the desire of political power and control over people.

[qrasy]

they became vietnamese

Yeah, originally Chinese but now claim as Vietnamese. Sounds quite logical at first, but then if you see the scale of migrations of Chinese to Vietnam, which didn't seem very large, you can say that Vietnamese should be larger part of original Viet...

[mean1010]

I can already smell the brushes burning when it's cranked up high.

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[alexchau]

hello guys,

I am Teochew Vietnamese or Hoa people in Vietnam.

I wonder if you guys mind my intervention

What you guys discussing is very interesting. I lived in Vietnam 5 years ago but now end up into an Australia citizen.

dunno if my info can help you guys a bit:

I dunno whether Vietnamese language is a Chinese language a not but what they call it a Vietnamese Language but also known in English as:

Sino-Vietnamese language or French invented Vietnamese language(because it's based on latin)

Han-Vietnamese or Traditional Vietnamese (200% absolutely in Traditional Chinese writing system and characters)(年 for year)

Chu Nom (another type of traditional Vietnamese stiill in Chinese characters but was modified)(南年 for year and note. those two characters just mean year in Chu Nom, not one like Han-Vietnamese)

Vietnamese pronunciation is very similar with Cantonese and Mandarin in some degrees (especially the Southern Vietnamese language because we have the north, central and south languages, each of them have accent differently and special words for each region) so in Vietnam, they usually say "If you caan speak Vietnamese well, then Cantonese is not a hard language for you to learn"

Hope my info can help you guys a bit

[xng]

hello guys,

I am Teochew Vietnamese or Hoa people in Vietnam.

Welcome aboard ! You've revived an extremely old thread.

If you take away the grammar and all those mon-khmer words, you're left with those Han-viet vocabulary then it is considered a chinese dialect.

[papen]

Ｉ　just want to have a few words. i read this topic started from part 1 (ｉ　ｄｉｄｎ'ｔ　ｅｖｅｎ　ｋｎｏｗ　ｔｈｅｒｅ'ｓ　ｐａｒｔ　２)　ａｎｄ　ｒｅａｌｉｚｅｄ　ｉｔ　ｓｔａｒｔｅｄ　ｓｉｎｃｅ　２００４　ａｎｄ　ｇｏｉｎｇ　ｔｏ　２０１０.　Ｉｔ'ｓ　ｊｕｓｔ　ｕｎｂｅｌｉｖａｂｌｅ.　

ｉ'ｍ　ａ　ｖｉｅｔｎａｍｅｓｅ　ａｎｄ　ｉ　ｄｏｎ'ｔ　ｋｎｏｗ　ｉｆ　ｉｔ'ｓ　ｔｒｕｅ　ｂｕｔ　ｔｏｄａｙ　ｉ　ｔｒｉｅｄ　ｔｏ　ｔａｌｋ　ｔｏ　ｍｙ　ｆｒｉｅｎｄｓ　ｗｈｏ'ｓ　ｆｒｏｍ　ＧｕａｎＺｈｏｕ.　Ｉ　ｊｕｓｔ　ｐｉｃｋｅｄ　ｕｐ　Ｃａｎｔｏｎｅｓｅ　ｔｈｉｓ　ｆｅｗ　ｄａｙｓ　ａｎｄ　ｉｔ'ｓ　ｔｈｅ　１ｓｔ　ｔｉｍｅ　ｉ　ｔａｌｋｅｄ　　ｉｎ　Ｃａｎｔｏｎｅｓe (ｊｕｓｔ　ｓｏｍｅ　ｓｉｍｐｌｅ　ｓｅｎｔｅｎｃｅｓ　ａｎｄ　we're studying in America by the way)　ａｎｄ　ｈｅ　ｓａｉｄ　ｈｅ　ｕｎｄｅｒｓｔｏｏｄ　ｍｅ　ｐｅｒｆｅｃｔｌｙ　ａｎｄ　ｉ　ｇｏｔ　ａｌｌ　ｔｈｅ　ｔｏｎｅｓ　ｃｏｒｒｅｃｔ.　Ｍａｙｂｅ　ｂｅｃａｕｓｅ　ｉ　ｌｅａｒｎｅｄ　Ｍａｎｄａｒｉｎ　ｂｅｆｏｒｅ.　Ｉ don't know. Oh yea and by the way i'm original from Northern Vietnam but i born in southern. None in my family speaks Chinese and we use northern accent at home.

In my believe. Vietnamese and Cantonese have the same ancestor but now, Vietnamese is Vietnamese and Cantonese is Cantonese. I'm proud to be Vietnamese and don't want to link anything with Chinese or Khmer. And for myself, sometimes when people speak vietnamese i thought it's cantonese, and sometimes people speak cantonese i thought it's vietnamese. So i believe our languages came from the same ancient language.

p.s: sorry about the font, i typed with ping yin, then after a while i realized and turned it off so the font is kind of mess up. I don't want to retype it. so please bear with it.

and just for your information.Ｔｈｅｒｅ'ｒｅ　ｍａｎｙ　ｏｆｆｉｃｉａｌ　ｄｉｓｃｕｓｓｉｏｎ　ａｂｏｕｔ　ｂｒｉｎｇｉｎｇ　ｂａｃｋ　Ｈａｎ　ｙｕ　(汉语　－　Ｈáｎ　ｔự)　ｉｎ　ｏｕｒ　ｅｄｕｃａｔｉｏｎ.　Ｂｅｃａｕｓｅ　ｏｆ　ｏｕｒ　ａｂｃ　ｗｒｉｔｉｎｇ,　Ｍａｎｙ　ｐｅｏｐｌｅ　ｃａｎ'ｔ　ｕｎｄｅｒｓｔａｎｄ　Ｖｉｅｔ　ａｎｃｉｅｎｔ　ｌｉｔｅｒａｔｕｒｅｓ　ａｓ　ｗｅｌｌ　ａｓ　ｕｎｄｅｒｓｔａｎｄｉｎｇ／ｕｓｉｎｇ　ｗｏｒｄｓ　ｗｒｏｎｇｌｙ　ｉｎｃｌｕｄｉｎｇ　ｓｏｍｅ　ｌａｎｇｕａｇｅ　ｐｒｏｆｅｓｓｏｒｓ／ｎｅｗｓ　ｒｅｐｏｒｔｅｒｓ／ｅｔｃ.　Ａｎｄ　ａｓ　ｓｏｍｅｏｎｅ　ｗｈｏ　ｌｅａｒｎ　Ｃｈｉｎｅｓｅ,　ｉｔ'ｓ　ｒｅａｌｌｙ　ａ　ｈｅａｄａｃｈｅ　ｔｏ　ｌｅａｒｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｖｏｃａｂｕｌａｒｙ.　Ｆｏｒ　ｅｘａｍｐｌｅ:　飞机场.　Ｉｎ　Ｖｉｅｔ　ｉｔ'ｓ　场机飞.　Ａｎｄ　ｉｆ　Ｉ　ｗａｎｔ　ｔｏ　ｓｈｏｒｔｅｎ　ｉｔ.　Ｉｔ'ｓ　机场　ｉｎ　Ｃｈｉｎｅｓｅ　ｂｕｔ　场飞　ｉｎ　Ｖｉｅｔｎａｍｅｓｅ　ｅｖｅｎ　ｔｈｏｕｇｈ　ａｌｌ　ｔｈｅ　ｃｈａｒａｃｔｅｒｓ　ｂｏｔｈ　Ｖｉｅｔ　ａｎｄ　Ｃｈｉｎｅｓｅ　ａｓ　ｉｎｄｉｖｉｄｕａｌ　ｓｈａｒｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｓａｍｅ　ｍｅａｎｉｎｇ.　Ａｎｄ　ｓｏｍｅｈｏｗ,　ｓｏｍｅｔｉｍｅｓ　ｗｅ　ｓｈａｒｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｓａｍｅ　ｇｒａｍｍａｒ　ｓｕｃｈ　ａｓ　"Ｉ'ｍ　ｎｏｔ　ｏｎｌｉｎｅ"　ｗｈｉｃｈ　ｔｒａｎｓｌａｔｅｓ　我不ｏｎｌｉｎｅ ，ｏｒ 我没有ｏｎｌｉｎｅ.　Ｂｏｔｈ　ｃａｎ　ｂｅ　ｕｎｄｅｒｓｔａｎｄ　ｉｎ　Ｖｉｅｔｎａｍｅｓｅ　ａｎｄ　Ｃｈｉｎｅｓｅ　ｂｕｔ　ｎｏｔ　Ｅｎｇｌｉｓｈ　Ｉ　ｎｏｔ　ｏｎｌｉｎｅ　－　Ｉ　ｄｏｎ'ｔ　ｈａｖｅ　ｏｎｌｉｎｅ　－　Ｉ　ｄｏｎ'ｔ　ｅｘｉｓｔ　ｏｎｌｉｎｅ.　ｉｔ　ｓｏｕｎｄｓ　ｆｕｎｎｙ.　

ｅｖｅｎ　ｆｏｒ　起床　(ｗａｋｅ　ｕｐ), Viet ｕｓｅｓ 睡起　ｏｒ　觉起　ｉｎｓｔｅａｄ .　Ｈｏｗ　ｃａｎ　ｉｔ　ｂｅ　ａ　Ｃｈｉｎｅｓｅ　ｄｉａｌｅｃｔ　ｗｈｅｎ　ｔｈｅｒｅ'ｓ　ａ　ｈｕｇｅ　ｄｉｆｆｅｒｅｎｔ　ｉｎ　ｗｏｒｄｓ　ｏｒｄｅｒ　ａｎｄ　ｕｓｉｎｇ??