Some more Hokkien words

[Ah-bin]

The reason Hainanese sounds "chhau-leng-tai" that is because its history is a bit like that of Singlish. What I mean is that it was a language that was picked up and learnt by people who were not native speakers of the language - in the case of Singlish this was Hokkien speakers learning English, and in the case of Hainanese it was Hloi or Li speakers learning a kind of Hoklo.

They couldn't pronounce nasalised vowels so they just dropped them, and they substituted sounds they had trouble saying. Grammar and vocabulary were also affected to some extent, as far as I've read, but I can't track down any examples to quote here right now.

Lui-chiu (雷州) dialect is like Hainanese without most of the influence from Hloi, so it is more similar to Teochiu or Hokkien. I've only heard it once and it sounds like Hokkien but I couldn't understand more than a few words.

[niuc]

The reason Hainanese sounds "chhau-leng-tai" that is because its history is a bit like that of Singlish. What I mean is that it was a language that was picked up and learnt by people who were not native speakers of the language - in the case of Singlish this was Hokkien speakers learning English, and in the case of Hainanese it was Hloi or Li speakers learning a kind of Hoklo.

Indeed Singlish is a kind of "chhau-leng-tai" version of English I don't know much about Hainanese, but if the sound shift is quite consistent, was it the only cause?

Lui-chiu (雷州) dialect is like Hainanese without most of the influence from Hloi, so it is more similar to Teochiu or Hokkien. I've only heard it once and it sounds like Hokkien but I couldn't understand more than a few words.

Thanks for the info. I got this from youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRWsrnQl ... re=related
雷話 there (apart from introduction that is Cantonese) is quite similar to Hokkien/Teochew.

[Ah-bin]

It does sound quite nice. Thanks for that link.

Perhaps I was wrong about the dropping of nasalised sounds though, because Lui-chiu drops them as well. Some of the sound changes are probably due to changes that occurred in isolation. It's interesting that Hainanese picked up an initial f- from ph- making it different from other types of Southern Min.

BTW if anyone is interested in Hainanese heritage, the best book to read is Edward Schafer's "Shore of Pearls" this is the best book written on early Hainanese history I have seen in any language, including Chinese.

[Ah-bin]

I'll get back to the original topic now... I'll put something up about Hainanese POJ (yes it does exist!) on another thread in the next few days.

I'm interested to find out what words people use for "originally"

I know goân-lâi 原來 from Taiwanese, but I've never heard it used on the PGHK podcast.

Pún-chiâⁿ 本成 is a word Sim taught me. Is it used anywhere else except Penang? Perhaps this is the "original" Hokkien word, ousted by the more literary term goân-lâi?

Also how about 病囝 pÈⁿ kiáⁿ for pregnant? Do other places use this or use ū-sin 有身?

"Always" can be 恬恬 tiām-tiām as well in Penang? How to distinguish it from the tiām-tiām meaning "quiet"?

Thanks for any comments.

[aokh1979]

原來 is not unique in Taiwan, it's a very common daily word in Penang. I can assure you.

本成 or sometimes 本來 are both very very common daily word in Penang, I also can assure that.

病囝 is definitely a usual word in Penang, we use it when we say someone's feeling unwell due to pregnancy, like vomit, dizzy, uncomfortable due to the baby......

恬恬 or 惔惔 sometimes can be a little confusing if you don't follow the conversation. Ha.

[niuc]

BTW if anyone is interested in Hainanese heritage, the best book to read is Edward Schafer's "Shore of Pearls" this is the best book written on early Hainanese history I have seen in any language, including Chinese.

Not many Chinese, even Hainanese, know about this, I guess. Are you a Sinologist by profession, Ah-bin?

原來 is not unique in Taiwan, it's a very common daily word in Penang.

原來 goân-lâi in my variant tends to be used as a realization of something previously unknown. E.g. Aokh, when you tell your Xiamen friends that you are from Malaysia, they may say 原來汝是馬來亞人. But if you want to say that you are originally from Malaysia (although now you're living in Xiamen), in my variant you would say 我原本徛馬來亞. So my variant differentiates between 原來 and 原本.

本成 or sometimes 本來 are both very very common daily word in Penang, I also can assure that.

Both are found in my variant too.

病囝 is definitely a usual word in Penang, we use it when we say someone's feeling unwell due to pregnancy, like vomit, dizzy, uncomfortable due to the baby......

Yes, this is the definition of 病囝 in my variant also, which is different from 有身 (pregnant).

恬恬 or 惔惔 sometimes can be a little confusing if you don't follow the conversation.

Both meanings also exist in my variant, but usually we use 定定 'tia*7-tia*7' for "always" to avoid the confusion.

[Ah-bin]

原來 goân-lâi in my variant tends to be used as a realization of something previously unknown. E.g. Aokh, when you tell your Xiamen friends that you are from Malaysia, they may say 原來汝是馬來亞人. But if you want to say that you are originally from Malaysia (although now you're living in Xiamen), in my variant you would say 我原本徛馬來亞. So my variant differentiates between 原來 and 原本.

Thanks Niuc. I wonder if this is the same in Penang?

Are you a Sinologist by profession, Ah-bin?

I spend far too much time reading books like this...if that is what you mean!

I can also recommend "The Empire of Min" by the same author. It is a history of the Min 閩 Empire, that flourished between the T'ang and Sung(the only time when Chinese Hokkien had their own independent state), but it's not as much fun to read as the Shore of Pearls.

病囝 is definitely a usual word in Penang, we use it when we say someone's feeling unwell due to pregnancy, like vomit, dizzy, uncomfortable due to the baby......

So Penang does use 有身 as well?

[niuc]

I spend far too much time reading books like this...if that is what you mean!

Must be a good thing to be able to do that! I look forward to reading more sharings about interesting stuffs you have read. Thanks in advance!

[aokh1979]

有身 is indeed widely used in Penang. I hear people say it. But in daily gossip, I think people tend to say 有囝 or 大-pat-肚 or 有 baby more often...... ^.^

[xng]

有身 is indeed widely used in Penang. I hear people say it. But in daily gossip, I think people tend to say 有囝 or 大-pat-肚 or 有 baby more often...... ^.^

Do you not know the correct chinese character or you are lazy to type it ?

大腹肚