Could someonne kindly tell me what is the different between Min Nan Dialects and Min Bei Dialects, please.
Little confused over here
dialectologists needed
Re: dialectologists needed
Actually there are more than 2 min groups.
But I agree that in terms of special unique characteristics (not in terms of intelligibility), you can divide them into 2 'larger' min groups.
Greater Minnan - Quanzhou, Zhangzhou, Xiamen, Chaozhou, Hainan, Putian
Greater Minbei - Fuzhou, Fuqing, Wuyishan
I don't know anything about MinZhong to know whether it is closer to minnan or minbei.
PS. I know the finer definition of Minnan which is based on intelligibility but I am not using that here. I am using the 'greater minnan' definition.
But I agree that in terms of special unique characteristics (not in terms of intelligibility), you can divide them into 2 'larger' min groups.
Greater Minnan - Quanzhou, Zhangzhou, Xiamen, Chaozhou, Hainan, Putian
Greater Minbei - Fuzhou, Fuqing, Wuyishan
I don't know anything about MinZhong to know whether it is closer to minnan or minbei.
PS. I know the finer definition of Minnan which is based on intelligibility but I am not using that here. I am using the 'greater minnan' definition.
Last edited by xng on Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: dialectologists needed
From what I know, there are three basic differences between greater minnan and greater minbei
1. The greater number of different characters/words used (not the difference in sound). eg. mandarin use T'a and minnan use Ee to mean He/She.
2. Greater minbei languages seem to have changes in initial consonant when it is pronounced as the second character in a word. So greater minbei sounds more 'fluid/lazy' whereas greater minnan has to pronounce every character forcefully.
3. Greater minbei seem to have lost k,t,p just like mandarin whereas greater minnan still retain k,t,p ending consonants.
Maybe we can ask the other members here whether what I observe is true or not. I am more exposed to greater Minnan dialects.
1. The greater number of different characters/words used (not the difference in sound). eg. mandarin use T'a and minnan use Ee to mean He/She.
2. Greater minbei languages seem to have changes in initial consonant when it is pronounced as the second character in a word. So greater minbei sounds more 'fluid/lazy' whereas greater minnan has to pronounce every character forcefully.
3. Greater minbei seem to have lost k,t,p just like mandarin whereas greater minnan still retain k,t,p ending consonants.
Maybe we can ask the other members here whether what I observe is true or not. I am more exposed to greater Minnan dialects.
Re: dialectologists needed
Please change your title to be more specific. ie.difference between minnan and minbeialexchau wrote:Could someonne kindly tell me what is the different between Min Nan Dialects and Min Bei Dialects, please.
Little confused over here
Re: dialectologists needed
Actually, old definition of Minbei and Mindong are not very good divisions.
The old definition apparently based on a few sounds like ü /y/ (and maybe b/g) and this can easily be areal influence.
This way we have coastal-inland division, not North-South. A few other words like "pig" also show this division (豬 vs 豨).
I'm not even sure if this applies to other Mindong like Ningde.
http://www.ling.sinica.edu.tw/eip/FILES ... 571905.pdf
More precisely, its -t is converted to -k instead of elided like in Mandarin.
The old definition apparently based on a few sounds like ü /y/ (and maybe b/g) and this can easily be areal influence.
Minzhong and Minbei use 佢, whereas Mindong and Minnan use 伊.xng wrote:1. The greater number of different characters/words used (not the difference in sound). eg. mandarin use T'a and minnan use Ee to mean He/She.
This way we have coastal-inland division, not North-South. A few other words like "pig" also show this division (豬 vs 豨).
This applies to many words in Fuzhouhua, but I haven't found any in Jianou.2. Greater minbei languages seem to have changes in initial consonant when it is pronounced as the second character in a word. So greater minbei sounds more 'fluid/lazy' whereas greater minnan has to pronounce every character forcefully.
I'm not even sure if this applies to other Mindong like Ningde.
Minbei (like Jianou) and Fuzhouhua has lost those consonants, but from the following link, Ningde of Mindong apparently only lost -t ending (we still see -k and -p).3. Greater minbei seem to have lost k,t,p just like mandarin whereas greater minnan still retain k,t,p ending consonants.
http://www.ling.sinica.edu.tw/eip/FILES ... 571905.pdf
More precisely, its -t is converted to -k instead of elided like in Mandarin.