Different variants of minnan

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
Locked
Gilpin
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:39 pm

Re: Pronounciation of 還 - Return

Post by Gilpin »

aokh1979 wrote:I think I have slightly different opinion here, maybe because I come in contact with people who do not really carry a typical accent anymore. Those people are not good in Hokkien though they speak it daily.

To me, Taiwanese are more easily understood than Xiamenese. I live in Xiamen for 7 years now, I visit Quanzhou and Zhangzhou, too. Sad to say, Xiamenese may be the "standard" for Minnan in China, but Xiamenese may also be the 1st Minnan variant to extinct if younger parents give up Xiamenese and speak to their children in Mandarin. I have seen so many of these people. Both husband and wife are local Xiamense grew up in Old Town area (where Xiamenese was most widely spoken), but speak to their children completely in Mandarin without any single word in Minnan. I observe my colleagues everyday, none of them can hold a comversation entirely in Xiamenese, at least 30% will be spoken in Mandarin very naturally. People say Xiamenese may die away in 20 years. With the growing speed like this today, I foresee it's going to be 10 years.
I totally agree. When I was E-mng, it was hard striking up a conversation in Hokkien with the young locals there. Most of the school kids in E-mng yap with each other in Mandarin. I have a friend who grew up in E-mng until college, but she still prefers to speak in Mandarin.

From my stints in Cuan-ciu, I found the locals, both young and old, commonly use Hokkien in their everyday speech. I remember the first time I hopped into a taxi with my cousin who lives in Cuan-ciu, I was surprised that he immediately gave directions in Hokkien to the driver. However, in Cuan-ciu, you can find a hodge podge of variants of the Cuan-ciu dialect, b/c of the people of the surrounding areas who have moved to Cuan-ciu. For example, you can hear both "berh" and "beh" for want "khyr" and "khi" for go, etc. Pls excuse my romanization.
xng
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Pronounciation of 還 - Return

Post by xng »

Gilpin wrote:
I totally agree. When I was E-mng, it was hard striking up a conversation in Hokkien with the young locals there. Most of the school kids in E-mng yap with each other in Mandarin. I have a friend who grew up in E-mng until college, but she still prefers to speak in Mandarin.

However, in Cuan-ciu, you can find a hodge podge of variants of the Cuan-ciu dialect, b/c of the people of the surrounding areas who have moved to Cuan-ciu. For example, you can hear both "berh" and "beh" for want "khyr" and "khi" for go, etc. Pls excuse my romanization.
Since nobody seems to want to preserve E-mng which is supposed to be the 'standard', then I have to look at Taiwanese as the standard now, Taipei version and not the Tainan version.

I have already told many people here that Minnan is going to be extinct because Minnan has no standard like Mandarin, but people don't believe me. Here's your proof in Xiamen .

As modernisation goes to Cuan-ciu, it will have the same fate as Xiamen.
Ah-bin
Posts: 830
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:10 am
Location: Somewhere in the Hokloverse

Re: Different variants of minnan

Post by Ah-bin »

Since nobody seems to want to preserve E-mng which is supposed to be the 'standard', then I have to look at Taiwanese as the standard now, Taipei version and not the Tainan version.
Hooray! You'll find far more resources and far more interested people for Taiwanese than for Amoy Hokkien, and you'll find government support too.
As modernisation goes to Cuan-ciu, it will have the same fate as Xiamen.
It's nothing to do with "modernisation" (what does that word actually mean anyway?) but more to do with having fewer outsiders living there, and perhaps more local pride. - I'll just add that Canton and Hong Kong are both much more "modernised" or industrialised than Amoy, but Cantonese hasn't suffered the same fate.
xng
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Different variants of minnan

Post by xng »

Ah-bin wrote: It's nothing to do with "modernisation" (what does that word actually mean anyway?) but more to do with having fewer outsiders living there, and perhaps more local pride. - I'll just add that Canton and Hong Kong are both much more "modernised" or industrialised than Amoy, but Cantonese hasn't suffered the same fate.
Cantonese hasn't suffered the same fate because

1. HK has been part of PRC for only 13 years, xiamen has been part of PRC since 1949.

2. Cantonese is the second most important chinese language in China due to the numerous HK movies.

3. Cantonese has a standard for any 'outsiders' to learn.

4. HK, shenzhen are economic powerhouses in China.

Xiamen can't match 1,2,3,4 with cantonese. While Taiwan can match 1,4, it loses out on 2, 3 with cantonese.
xng
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Different variants of minnan

Post by xng »

Hohomi,

This is a late reply, why do you use this romanisation ie. 間 kui ?

I thought it should be pronounced as Kinn, Shouldn't K'ui be the romanisation for 開 ?
hohomi
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:13 pm
Location: Tsuân-Tsiu [Quanzhou]
Contact:

Re: Different variants of minnan

Post by hohomi »

xng wrote:Hohomi,
This is a late reply, why do you use this romanisation ie. 間 kui ?
I thought it should be pronounced as Kinn, Shouldn't K'ui be the romanisation for 開 ?
一間(kui*)房

kui* Quanzhou
kai* Tong'an
king Xiamen
kan Zhangzhou
xng
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Different variants of minnan

Post by xng »

Hohomi


Is there a difference between the various main dialects ?

I've heard of

Ha mit
Sia Mit
Sim Mit

Taiwanese use Sia Mit. How about Xiamen, Quanzhou, Zhangzhou ?
hohomi
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:13 pm
Location: Tsuân-Tsiu [Quanzhou]
Contact:

Re: Different variants of minnan

Post by hohomi »

xng wrote:Hohomi
Is there a difference between the various main dialects ?
I've heard of
Ha mit
Sia Mit
Sim Mit
Taiwanese use Sia Mit. How about Xiamen, Quanzhou, Zhangzhou ?
"ha mih" is peculiar to Southeast Asian Hokkien.
"sim-mih" is Xiamenese. "Sia*-mih" or "sa*-mih" are used everywhere else.
"na-a"(哪仔) and "na-hue(哪貨)" are peculiar to Zhangzhou.
xng
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Different variants of minnan

Post by xng »

hohomi wrote: "ha mih" is peculiar to Southeast Asian Hokkien.
"sim-mih" is Xiamenese. "Sia*-mih" or "sa*-mih" are used everywhere else.
"na-a"(哪仔) and "na-hue(哪貨)" are peculiar to Zhangzhou.
Thanks.

But I've never heard of Penangites saying na-a before ? Isn't penang hokkien based on Zhangzhou ?
Andrew

Re: Different variants of minnan

Post by Andrew »

There are lots of Chiangchiu-isms that are not carried into Penang Hokkien, e.g. 間 kan, 千 chhan, 汝 li, 箸 ti, the low 陽入tone, etc.
Locked