Variant of Amoy spoken in Fujian province - Resources??

[vaskimies]

Hey everyone,

So I've had my eye on Spoken Amoy Hokkien by Nicholas Bodman (http://www.amazon.com/Spoken-Amoy-Hokki ... 0879504501) and another forum member told me that it was a good resource... for the variant of the language spoken in Malaya. 6 decades ago.

Are there are any books or resources for the variant of the language as it is spoken in China's Fujian province? I really am not looking to learn Taiwanese, which is a shame because most resources for this language seem to focus on the Taiwanese variant.

Or would you say that Fujian Amoy and Taiwanese are close enough for a book on Taiwanese to suffice?

Actually, would that book by Bodman suffice?

Thanks.

[xng]

A. "variant of the language as it is spoken in China's Fujian province"

Basically, there are 3 main variants of 'hokkien' ie. minnan that have significant differences from each other but still intelligible to a large extent.

1. Quanzhou
2. Amoy/Xiamen/Taiwan
3. Zhangzhou

I am tempted to put in Chaozhou/Teociu as the fourth option but I think I am going to be shot if I say this.

Note: Malaya has two main variants ie. Zhangzhou and Quanzhou.(not the amoy variant). Malaya doesn't have a 'standard variant' as everybody thinks there is.

B. If you are thinking of standard Minnan language, then it is the amoy variant.

Taiwanese hokkien and amoy hokkien are almost identical. It is safe to learn the Taiwanese version.
Taiwanese and amoy hokkien has the same relationship as Guangzhou and HK cantonese, only very slight variance and more for native speakers only.

[vaskimies]

Thank you for the informative response.

So, if I wanted to learn "standard" Amoy, then a book on the Malaya variant (be it either Quanzhou or Zhangzhou) is not a good idea, am I correct?

Hmm, tough situation here...

[Ah-bin]

Well, actually there is no such thing as "standard" Hokkien, only Hokkien that is widely understood, and Hokkien that isn't. Taiwanese is widely understood because Taiwan is the heartland of Hokkien cultural production, even adults in Amoy can understand it.

I learn Penang Hokkien because I like it, but you won't get far with it in Amoy or the surrounding cities, because it contains many Malay words and older expressions that Chinese Hokkien speakers no longer understand and is spoken mainly in northern Malaysia and some places in Sumatra (I bumped into someone from Borneo who spoke something similar once), but not in China or Taiwan.

If you can read Chinese then try Lin Baoqing's 林寶卿 Minnanyu jiaocheng 閩南話教程, if you're in Amoy you can find it in the big bookshop upstairs on the corner of Yanwu Road and Siming South Road. This will teach you what is spoken by middle-aged people in Xiamen. There are plenty of good dictionaries that have just been published in China that show three different kinds of pronunciation Chiang-chiu (Zhangzhou) Choan-chiu (Quanzhou) and Amoy. The big one is called Minnanhua da cidian 閩南話大詞典.

If you learn what is in Bodman's book you can't really go too far wrong， especially if you only can read English as it is the only detailed textbook that isn;t about Taiwanese.

Also search further down on the forum for threads on online resources, there was a bit of discussion there last year about them.


Vaskimies, oletko Suomelainen?

[vaskimies]

jopas nyt jotaki! joku toinen suomea-osaava kaveri haha hauska tavata. en itekää oo suomalainen vaan semmonen suomee-opiskeleva ulkomaalainen (amerikkalainen täsmälleen) ja oon asunut aikoinani suomessa ja nyt olen parisuhteessa suomalaisen miehen kaa ja myö puhutaa vain suomee keskenämme. entäs sie? suomalainen vai australialainen vai..?

Thanks for the helpful words by the way! I think I'll just suck it up and buy Bodman's book. I hear he uses his own romanization though which kind of puts me off but I might as well get the book since I found it for a decent price (that is, under 100 bucks ahahah).

edit: I read this in another thread

None of the English books that use the terms "Amoy Hokkien" actually teach what is spoken now in Amoy.

Would you guys agree with this? :\

[xng]

Thank you for the informative response.

So, if I wanted to learn "standard" Amoy, then a book on the Malaya variant (be it either Quanzhou or Zhangzhou) is not a good idea, am I correct?

Hmm, tough situation here...

It really depends on where you want to use it.

For foreigners ie. non native speakers, it is better to learn the standard version that is acknowledged by most parties (maybe not some of the forummers here who thinks their version is standard ). You can pick up the various differences between the amoy version and the rest if you decide to use it in Malaya.

Eg.

In Zhangzhou hokkien, two is pronounced as 'Noh' which will get you blank faces if you speak it in Taiwan, Singapore, Southern Malaya or Xiamen which pronounce it as 'Neng'.

[Ah-bin]

En ole Suomalainen, olen Uusi-seelantilainen, mutta olen oppinut Viron kieltä, siis ymmärrän vähän Suomen kielestä.

It was about fifteen years ago, so I can;t remember much any more....kaikki on nyt muutunut (changed?) Viron kieleksi!

In Zhangzhou hokkien, two is pronounced as 'Noh' which will get you blank faces if you speak it in Taiwan, Singapore, Southern Malaya or Xiamen which pronounce it as 'Neng'.

I've tried this on Taiwanese, and some could understand. The northeast coast of Taiwan speaks something very close to Chiang-chiu Hokkien, so anyone who had anything to do with that area won't give you a blank look.

[vaskimies]

Thank you for the informative response.

So, if I wanted to learn "standard" Amoy, then a book on the Malaya variant (be it either Quanzhou or Zhangzhou) is not a good idea, am I correct?

Hmm, tough situation here...

It really depends on where you want to use it.

For foreigners ie. non native speakers, it is better to learn the standard version that is acknowledged by most parties (maybe not some of the forummers here who thinks their version is standard :lol: ). You can pick up the various differences between the amoy version and the rest if you decide to use it in Malaya.

Eg.

In Zhangzhou hokkien, two is pronounced as 'Noh' which will get you blank faces if you speak it in Taiwan, Singapore, Southern Malaya or Xiamen which pronounce it as 'Neng'.

Oh grrrr. That's the problem, is that I want to learn Amoy Hokkien the way it is spoken in Xiamen, not Malaya. If only this guy had written his book on that dialect instead of the other!! How very frustrating. Oh well. That's why I started the thread is because I want the variant spoken in Fujian, more specifically in Xiamen. Not Taiwanese, no way.

En ole Suomalainen, olen Uusi-seelantilainen, mutta olen oppinut Viron kieltä, siis ymmärrän vähän Suomen kielestä.

It was about fifteen years ago, so I can;t remember much any more....kaikki on nyt muutunut (changed?) Viron kieleksi! :D

Suomenkieli sujuu sinulta hyvin, ottaen huomioon se, ettet oo reilusti opiskellu suomee vaan viroo! Hehe. Ite ymmärrän viroo surkeesti mutta lukiessani viroks niin ymmärrän enemmän. Changed = muuttunut, siis kaks teetä. ;)

[AndrewAndrew]

Bodman specifically teaches the Amoy variant. It is just the dialogues that are set in Malaya. Occasionally he points out how the Amoy variant is different from that spoken in south Malaya/Singapore. The north Malaya variant is largely ignored.

[xng]

Not Taiwanese, no way.

As I have mentioned before, Taiwanese and Xiamen have very minor differences for a large part of the language.

It is just like american and canadian English, are there any communication problems between these two dialects ?