Hey I have a quick question about a certain character used in the POJ romanization.
Let's take for example the word for chemistry, hòa-ha̍k.
According to wiktionary, the second 'a' has a little vertical line above it, but my dictionary gives the word as hòa-hák, that is, with an accute accent rather than the line. I also notice that ha̍k in hòa-ha̍k is pronounced hak˥˥ rather than as hak˥ ˧ as the accute accent would suggest although I'm sure that happened because of tone sandhi, but ˥˥ doesn't appear as any of the given IPA pronunciations for any of hokkien's 7 tones, unless that second ˥ is supposed to be a glottal stop.
I am SUPER confused. Can someone explain that to me? I apologise for my question being so convoluted. I guess what I'm asking is what that vertical line means and where in the world ˥˥ comes from?? Is there, in all actuality, more than 7 different tones in this language?
Also, is there somewhere where I can listen to a recording or short snippet of each of Hokkien's 7 tones being slowly/carefully pronounced?
2 questions - vertical line above letters, plus tones
Re: 2 questions - vertical line above letters, plus tones
Qucik answer :
They are the same, it's just that the vowels with vertical lines weren't available in many fonts until quite recently, so they just used acute accents instead to replace them.
Actually it should be hoa (51) hak (5), the first tone in the word is originally 21 and should sandhi to 51.
They are the same, it's just that the vowels with vertical lines weren't available in many fonts until quite recently, so they just used acute accents instead to replace them.
Actually it should be hoa (51) hak (5), the first tone in the word is originally 21 and should sandhi to 51.
Re: 2 questions - vertical line above letters, plus tones
When you say 51 and 21, do you mean the word is pronounced with a combination of tone 5 and tone 1, or tone 2 and tone 1? Or does that mean something else?
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Sorry, I'm a total beginner.
Edit: I just read that the acute accent is used for tone 2 (yin rising) and the vertical bar for tone 8 (yang entering). Does that sound about right?
:\
Sorry, I'm a total beginner.
Edit: I just read that the acute accent is used for tone 2 (yin rising) and the vertical bar for tone 8 (yang entering). Does that sound about right?
Re: 2 questions - vertical line above letters, plus tones
The names of the tones don't correspond to anything like their sounds "Yin Rising" is actually a high falling tone.
The numbers indicate the tone pitch, 5 indicating the highest pitch and 1 the lowest. 51 means a sharp fall from highest to lowest. 5 is a short high tone, 55 is a long high-pitched tone.
Just ignore these things when they write them like this: ˥ ˧ they're not helpful. They are only indicating one pitch each, and sticking them together makes it look like two or three separate tones are being transcribed. They should really be written as a single line
˥ = 55
˦ = 44
˧ = 33
˨ = 22
˩ = 11
but 25 (a rising tone like the Mandarin second tone) would be written as ∕│, but there are no symbols for all the different combinations, so people just use number notation instead.
The numbers indicate the tone pitch, 5 indicating the highest pitch and 1 the lowest. 51 means a sharp fall from highest to lowest. 5 is a short high tone, 55 is a long high-pitched tone.
Just ignore these things when they write them like this: ˥ ˧ they're not helpful. They are only indicating one pitch each, and sticking them together makes it look like two or three separate tones are being transcribed. They should really be written as a single line
˥ = 55
˦ = 44
˧ = 33
˨ = 22
˩ = 11
but 25 (a rising tone like the Mandarin second tone) would be written as ∕│, but there are no symbols for all the different combinations, so people just use number notation instead.
Re: 2 questions - vertical line above letters, plus tones
Wow... that's super confusing, haha. So the names of the tones don't mean anything, neither do the IPA symbols. Great success? Lol.
Can I listen to recordings of the tones anywhere? If not, might anyone here be troubled to grab their mic and record the tones for me, so I can hear exactly how they are pronounced rather than trying to guess from written descriptions? It would help me immensely.
Can I listen to recordings of the tones anywhere? If not, might anyone here be troubled to grab their mic and record the tones for me, so I can hear exactly how they are pronounced rather than trying to guess from written descriptions? It would help me immensely.
Re: 2 questions - vertical line above letters, plus tones
Hi vaskimies,
I posted this thread a while back: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7750&sid=e3dc5ec91a ... a3395faa86
I realise it's not what you want, but it has Taiwanese being spoken quite slowly and clearly, at informal conversational speed, rather than in the monotonous and super-slow speed of the boring drills associated with introductory courses to a language. It might be too advanced for you now, but it's perhaps a nice way to become familiar with the sound of Hokkien.
Do you already speak Mandarin? And can you read Chinese characters?
I posted this thread a while back: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7750&sid=e3dc5ec91a ... a3395faa86
I realise it's not what you want, but it has Taiwanese being spoken quite slowly and clearly, at informal conversational speed, rather than in the monotonous and super-slow speed of the boring drills associated with introductory courses to a language. It might be too advanced for you now, but it's perhaps a nice way to become familiar with the sound of Hokkien.
Do you already speak Mandarin? And can you read Chinese characters?