Niuc - yes, or at least we think it is similar. Our 陰平 and 陽平 are the same as in Taiwanese Mandarin, and our 去 and 上 tones are the reverse. 陰去 and 陽去 are hard to distinguish. Our 入 tones are like standard Amoy.niuc wrote:hi Andrew: This is not the case for my variant. Our 2nd tone has low pitch, while the 1st tone is similar to Mandarin. I notice that 2nd tone in some Hokkien variants is similar to Mandarin's 4th, is this the case for Penang too? For my variant, it is the 8th tone (similar to Mandarin's 4th).
Hokkien Minnan Architecture (& language / culture etc)
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Andrew
Re: Hokkien Minnan Architecture (& language / culture etc)
Re: Hokkien Minnan Architecture (& language / culture etc)
Hi Everyone,
A few weeks ago I posted a link here to the first video clip made by me and Ah-bin. So, I'm still "misusing" this topic to post a link to our second clip. It's not a very polished performance, because everything is spontaneous and unrehearsed, but I'm quite happy with how it turned out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uli5jUqIGu8
A few weeks ago I posted a link here to the first video clip made by me and Ah-bin. So, I'm still "misusing" this topic to post a link to our second clip. It's not a very polished performance, because everything is spontaneous and unrehearsed, but I'm quite happy with how it turned out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uli5jUqIGu8
Re: Hokkien Minnan Architecture (& language / culture etc)
Hi,
Still "misusing" this topic
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF2o0cKHR10
This was the last video that Ah-bin and I made together, before he left for Australia. Looking back, I was sorry that I didn't ask him what the subject of his research at the university library was, because that would have been of interest to viewers. Oh well.
Ah-bin has given me some ideas for further clips which I can make by myself.
Still "misusing" this topic
.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF2o0cKHR10
This was the last video that Ah-bin and I made together, before he left for Australia. Looking back, I was sorry that I didn't ask him what the subject of his research at the university library was, because that would have been of interest to viewers. Oh well.
Ah-bin has given me some ideas for further clips which I can make by myself.
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AndrewAndrew
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:26 am
Re: Hokkien Minnan Architecture (& language / culture etc)
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but in light of Ah-Bin's recent contribution on tones in Penang Hokkien, I wondered what he and aokh thought of the previous posts in this thread.
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AndrewAndrew
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:26 am
Penang Hokkien tones
Glad this forum is back online!
A friend pointed out a few days ago that he pronounces the 2nd tone in Pg Hokkien as a high _rising_ tone. I couldn't believe it at first, until I discovered that most people on the Penang Hokkien podcast do the same thing. It's either a 45 or a 454 with the 45 drawled, and is particularly noticeable when stressed. It's almost as if as long as you hit 5 at some point, Penang people will recognise it as tone 2.
A friend pointed out a few days ago that he pronounces the 2nd tone in Pg Hokkien as a high _rising_ tone. I couldn't believe it at first, until I discovered that most people on the Penang Hokkien podcast do the same thing. It's either a 45 or a 454 with the 45 drawled, and is particularly noticeable when stressed. It's almost as if as long as you hit 5 at some point, Penang people will recognise it as tone 2.
Re: Hokkien Minnan Architecture (& language / culture etc)
You mean the chiāuⁿ-siaⁿ 上聲? Actually, a native PGHK speaker called Sarah Lee has done a study on this. It varies quite a lot between different speakers.
"An acoustic analysis of the tone system of Penang Hokkien"
http://lingweb.eva.mpg.de/jakarta/seals ... /sarah.pdf
I was always hearing it as 213, or with other people as 55.
"An acoustic analysis of the tone system of Penang Hokkien"
http://lingweb.eva.mpg.de/jakarta/seals ... /sarah.pdf
I was always hearing it as 213, or with other people as 55.
Re: Hokkien Minnan Architecture (& language / culture etc)
Hi Andrew & Ah-bin,
Hmmm... I can't remember which one is 上聲. The one I think Andrew is taking about is the one in "ho2" (="good").
That some Penang people pronounce it as rising is amazing news to me. I'll have to listen more closely. (Perhaps it was said earlier, but) I'd always believed that my tone-2 was a high-falling, until Ah-bin pointed out to me that it doesn't fall that much. I'm still convinced (well, more belief than intellectual conviction) that my tone-2 does fall at least a little bit (because, try as I may, it still FEELS as if it's falling a lot), perhaps 54. Still intending to get my friend to do the measurements, but there are so many other things to do...
Hmmm... I can't remember which one is 上聲. The one I think Andrew is taking about is the one in "ho2" (="good").
That some Penang people pronounce it as rising is amazing news to me. I'll have to listen more closely. (Perhaps it was said earlier, but) I'd always believed that my tone-2 was a high-falling, until Ah-bin pointed out to me that it doesn't fall that much. I'm still convinced (well, more belief than intellectual conviction) that my tone-2 does fall at least a little bit (because, try as I may, it still FEELS as if it's falling a lot), perhaps 54. Still intending to get my friend to do the measurements, but there are so many other things to do...