Malay syntax in Penang Hokkien?

[SimL]

Chinese is like English in the sense that we can address our parents or elders with pronouns, after opening with "Dad/Mom/Auntie etc". That is not the case in Bahasa Indonesia, as we need to keep using "Dad" or "Grandma" in place of pronouns. To address them with pronouns is considered rude and impolite.

Hi niuc,

Very interesting to know, because I can remember when I was about 10, and speaking to my (baba) grandmother. I innocently asked: "a-ma2, lu be khi bo?" (= "granny, are you going?"). I got the most horrific telling off - in fact, the ONLY time I can remember her telling me off at all - but in this case, she was pretty angry! "Lu? Lu? cui-cui si Lu?!? a-MA be khi bo?". To this day, I have huge difficulty saying "lu" to any of my uncles and aunts (mostly in their late 70's and early 80's nowadays).

I'd speculate that this linguistic rule was present in (some forms of) Malay, which made it into standard Indonesian and (some forms of?) Baba Hokkien.

[niuc]

Hi Sim

... - but in this case, she was pretty angry! "Lu? Lu? cui-cui si Lu?!? a-MA be khi bo?". To this day, I have huge difficulty saying "lu" to any of my uncles and aunts (mostly in their late 70's and early 80's nowadays).

What a shock for you then! It must be considered very rude for your grandmother's culture, hence her reaction.

The more extreme case is that some consider using "I" ("aku", "saya", not to mention "gua/gue" -> pronouns borrowed from Hokkien or other languages, e.g. Arab-associated "ente", are generally considered rude) in talking to elders is impolite too, so they use their name instead of "I". It can be confusing as we may think that they are talking about someone else, but actually they are talking about themselves.

I'd speculate that this linguistic rule was present in (some forms of) Malay, which made it into standard Indonesian and (some forms of?) Baba Hokkien.

I am not sure about Malaysian Malay but I think it should be there too.