Hoklo version of the rainmaker story

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
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amhoanna
Posts: 912
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:43 pm

Hoklo version of the rainmaker story

Post by amhoanna »

Ta̍kgê hó!

I'd like to +/- translate this one story from English into Hoklo. It doesn't have to be a tight translation, though, so it might be as much of a rewrite as a translation.

Here is the English version:
In a far province, no rain had fallen for the longest time. Everything was dried up. At last the citizens made to fetch the rainmaker. An envoy of key dudes was sent to see him in the distant town where he lived, with the urgent request to come as soon as possible and make rain for the parched fields.

The rainmaker, a wise old man, promised to do so on the condition that he be provided with a lone cabin in open country, where he could be alone with no company for three days. Then he would see what could be done.

All his requests were met, down to the last detail. On the evening of the third day, abundant rain fell.

Full of praise, a grateful crowd made their way to the cabin and exclaimed, “How did you do it? Please, tell us.”

“It was pretty simple,” the rainmaker said. “All I’ve been doing for the last three days is putting myself in order, putting myself in order, and putting myself in order, because I knew that once the man was in order, then the world would be in order, and the big bad drought would have to be over.”
(online at http://www.tawa.asia/p/nos-liberamos.html)
amhoanna
Posts: 912
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:43 pm

Re: Hoklo version of the rainmaker story

Post by amhoanna »

And here's what I have so far, in ângmo͘jī (will do hànjī later):
Tữ cịt ẻ tiàu'oán.ẻ cngkha. íkeng kú.bổ lộhhõ..a. Tạitệ.kiỏngbơh chàuhớta..khừ 'a. Lộhbớ.in hia.cãitệlảng.koattẹng ài ciô lảng lải khit hõ..a. In tộ chephài cịt tịn tiúnnlố.mểjịt.koánn kàu i toà.hit ẻ goạpothảu. kiủ i koánnkín lải kàu hit è tiàu'oán.ẻ cngkha.thơè in khit hõ.

He khit'hõsian.sĩ cịt ẻ cin ũ tìhụi.ẻ lãuhờ'á. i kạ in kóng hố. ṃ kôh ũ nõ ẻ tiảukiãnn. tệ it.sị ài tị khangkhoah.ẻ pẻnnpo.hõ i cịt keng sơèkeng chù.thang toà. tệ jị.sĩ sann kang lãi.tạkgẻ.lóng mài khừ kạ i cakcỗ.

Hiah'ẻ tiúnnlố.oảncoản.cunciàu i só kóng..ẻ lải cồ. He khit'hõsian.kóng i ẹ cĩnliọng. Tệ sann mể, ciảnnsịt.lộh toạ hõ.

Cịt tịn lỏngbỉn. ná kiảnn.ná ôlố he rainmaker, e'e.tịntịn.lải kàu khangkhoah.ẻ pẻnnpo.hit keng sơèkeng chù. mṇg he rainmaker. "Lứ tàutơé.sĩ áncoánn cồ kàu..ẻ? Chiánn lứ ài kạ goán kóng."

He khit'hõsian.kóng, "Bổ..lah, cin kántan. Cit sann kang.goá tửliáu.kạ kakĩ.kò hốsề.ígoạ.tộ bổ chòng pạt hãng. In'ụi goá cai'iánn. nạ sĩ goá púntơé.hốsề.liáu'ãu. thinn.kah tơệ.tiạnntiọh cụjiản.suỉ tộ hốsề..a. toạ'oãnn.ṃ tộ sủi ẹ siusoah."
A few questions...

1) How do you say "rainmaker" and "make rain"?

2) Is tiunn2-lo2 the best available translation for elders?

3) Is there a better translation for "open country" than khangkhoah e pennpou? Or a better translation for cabin?

4) Is toa7-oann6 the best available translation for drought?

5) Does anything sound weird to you native speakers?

6) Any other suggestions for making it more vivid?
niuc
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:23 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Hoklo version of the rainmaker story

Post by niuc »

Hi Amhoanna

Thanks! A beautiful and profound story! :mrgreen:

In my variant:
1. To "make rain" is 'chong3-hor7' 創雨 or 'chong3-hor7-i1-lo8-hor7' (to cause it to rain); 'co7-hor7' 造雨 = to create rain (more for divine); 'kiu5/khit4-hor7" 求/乞雨 = to pray for rain.
Rainmaker can be 'chong3-hor7_e0', but in the context of the story the more correct term is 'kiu5-hor7_e0'. Your 'khit4-hor7-sian1' is a good & nice term IMO.
2. I have never heard of 'tiu*2-lo2' 長老 other than as a translation for "presbyter". The English version uses "key dudes", which I think better translated as 'thau5-lang5' 頭人.
3. For "open country", 'khang1-khua4 e5-pi*5-por1' sounds good. For daily speech, I would say 'tua7-chau2-por1' 大草[埔]. For cabin, may be can use 'pang1-liau5' 枋寮?
4. 台語-華語線頂辭典 has tōa-ōaⁿ (tua7-ua*7) 大旱, but I have never known this term. It also has ta-khó [凋洘] which makes more sense to me, though I think we pronounce the second word as 'kho3'.
Btw, in Bagan it is usually called 'cue3-tang1' 做冬 (lit. having winter) although there is no winter in SE Asia. Due to experience of having no rain during winter back then in Minnan area, the term 'tang1' also means "no rain".
5. I can understand the Hokkien version you posted, though some words may need TLJ for further clarification. However it sounds a bit formal to me, e.g. instead of "tiàu'oán.ẻ cngkha" I would just say 'cin1-hng7 e5-sor2-cai7' for "a far province".

I look forward to see the TLJ (hanji) version. :mrgreen:
amhoanna
Posts: 912
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:43 pm

Re: Hoklo version of the rainmaker story

Post by amhoanna »

Niuc,

Thanks for the thorough response. Your Hokkien gứkám is amazing! If was an alien from outer space, I would assume you grew up in a full-on Hokkien-speaking country, i.e. got all your schooling in Hokkien, watched mostly Hokkien TV, etc. :lol:

1. I like chòng hō͘, and I think it fits! That's what the people want him to do, is work a miracle. 創雨仙 chònghō͘sian has a nice ring to it.

2. Thâulâng ... does that mean leaders? That would mean the leaders kind of chephài'd themselves... How about "ū thâu ū bīn ê lâng"?

3. Pangliâu sounds great. There's a town called Pangliâu in TW. It's cool that it's a word in itself. How about liâu'á, would that also work? ... "Toā cháupo͘" sounds spot on.

4. Cool, will have to mull over this one.

I'll shore up the whole thing in a few days ... probably using our familiar Amoy-based POJ. It was so cool typing with the 8-tone Coânciu system and the Coânciu vowels, but I don't think my brain is wired that way. It'll have to wait for the rise of a league of politically independent Hoklo-speaking city-states reaching from Medan to Kelâng (TW). :mrgreen:
amhoanna
Posts: 912
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:43 pm

Re: Hoklo version of the rainmaker story

Post by amhoanna »

Here it is again, broken up into lines to make it easier to "see through".

I adopted "kàliáu" from PgHK. :P

Is "kài" used or understood in the Lâm'iûⁿ?
Tī ci̍t ê kài hūiⁿ. ê cngkha.. ho͘ⁿh,
íkeng kú. bô lo̍hhō͘.. a.
Chân. kah cháu'á. kah chiūnâ'á.. ho͘ⁿh,
ci̍t sìkè. (抑 kui sìkè. ?) lóng kiôngbeh chàuhoéta.. khì.. a.
Lo̍hboé. in khiā hia. ê lâng. siūⁿkóng bēsái koh chiân.. a,
ài kín cio (抑 kiò 抑 choā 抑 choē) hit ê chòng hō͘.. ê lâi.
In tō chephài ci̍t tīn [thâulâng.] (抑 ū thâu ū bīn ê lâng.).
mêji̍t. koáⁿ khì kàu i toà. hit ê goāpo͘thâu.
cio (抑 kiû) i kín toè in tńgkhì hit ê kài hūiⁿ. kiôngbeh chàuhoéta. ê cngkha.
lâi thè in chòng hō͘.

Hit ê chòng hō͘.. ê sī ci̍t ê cin ū tìhūi. ê pe̍hmo͘'ong.
(抑 lāuhoè'á. 抑 cēhoèlâng.)
I sûi tō tah'èng. toè in tńg..khì.. a.
I kóng in ài tī ci̍t ê toā cháupo͘. ê tiong'ng.
hō͘ i ci̍t keng (抑 choân ci̍t keng ???) [liâu'á]. thang toà.
koh lâi. saⁿ kang lāi. lóng mài ū lâng khì kā i cakcō.
Ánne. i ētàng kā in piàⁿ khoàⁿmāi.

Hit ê cngkha. ê thâulâng.
lóng ciàu (抑 thiaⁿ 抑 cunciàu) i kóng.. ê lâi cò.
Tē saⁿ mê. ciâⁿsi̍t. lo̍h toāhō͘.. alah!

Ci̍t tīn cāitē lâng. (抑 còsit lâng.)
ná kiâⁿ. ná oló hit ê chònghō͘ sian,
e'e. tīntīn. lâi kàu toā cháupo͘. ê tiong'ng. hit keng [liâu'á].
mūi hit ê chòng hō͘.. ê,
"Saihū. lí tàuté. sī áncoáⁿ [cò kàu].. ê?
Chiáⁿ lí ài kóng hō͘ gún cai."

Hit ê chòng hō͘.. ê kóng "Bô.. la, cin kántan.. la.
Cit saⁿ kang. goá tō sī kā gún kakī. kò͘ hō͘ hósè. Ánne. niā'ā.
Kakī. nā hósè. liáu'āu.. ho͘ⁿ,
thiⁿkha'ē. cūjiân. tō hósè kàliáu,
thiⁿ. kah tē. m̄ tō sûi bē koh ta.. a?"
Other words for drought, according to the dictionaries available online:
khò'oāⁿ
khòhoāⁿ
khònghān

Douglas 1873 includes an expression "thiⁿ ta toē ta", goá tō kā i khioh lâi ēng". :P
niuc
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:23 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Hoklo version of the rainmaker story

Post by niuc »

Hi Amhoanna

Yes, 'thâulâng' means leader(s). I see, then 'ū thâu ū bīn ê lâng' is the phrase. For 'pangliâu', so far I have never heard anyone call it 'liâu-á', not sure if it is used in other variants. I heard 'kài' used in Taiwanese Hokkien to mean "very", but so far not in SEAsia.
amhoanna wrote: It'll have to wait for the rise of a league of politically independent Hoklo-speaking city-states reaching from Medan to Kelâng (TW). :mrgreen:
Bong2-bong2-a8 bang7! :P
amhoanna
Posts: 912
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:43 pm

Re: Hoklo version of the rainmaker story

Post by amhoanna »

REVISED!

Ū ci̍t ê cin hūiⁿ. ê cngkha.. ho͘ⁿh, tī hia íkeng kú. bô lo̍hhō͘.. a. Chân. kah cháu'á. kah chiūnâ'á.. ho͘ⁿh, kui sìkè. lóng kiôngbeh chàuhoéta.. khì.. a. Lo̍hboé. in khiā hia. ê lâng. siūⁿkóng bēsái koh chiân.. a, ài kín cio hit ê chòng hō͘.. ê lâi. In tō chephài ci̍t tīn ū thâu. ū bīn. ê lâng. mêji̍t. koáⁿ khì kàu i toà. hit ê goāpo͘thâu. ko͘ciâⁿ i kín toè in tńgkhì hit ê cin hūiⁿ. kiôngbeh chàuhoéta. ê cngkha. lâi thè in chòng hō͘.

Hit ê chòng hō͘.. ê sī ci̍t ê cin ū tìhūi. ê lāuhoè'á. I sûi tō tah'èng.. a, tō toè in tńg..khì. I kóng ài tī ci̍t ê toā cháupo͘. ê tiong'ng. hō͘ i ci̍t keng pangliâu. thang toà. koh lâi. saⁿ kang lāi. lóng mài ū lâng khì kā i cakcō. Ánne. i ētàng kā in piàⁿ khoàⁿmāi.

Hit ê cngkha. ê thâulâng. lóng ciàu i kóng.. ê lâi cò. Tē saⁿ mê. ciâⁿsi̍t. lo̍h toāhō͘.. a!

Ci̍t tīn còsit lâng. ná kiâⁿ. ná oló hit ê chònghō͘ sian, e'e. tīntīn. lâi kàu toā cháupo͘. ê tiong'ng. hit keng pangliâu. mūi hit ê chòng hō͘.. ê, "Saihū. lí tàuté. sī áncoáⁿ cò.. ê? Chiáⁿ lí ài kóng hō͘ gún cai."

Hit ê chòng hō͘.. ê kóng "Bô.. la, cin kántan.. la. Cit saⁿ kang. goá tō sī kā gún kakī. kò͘ hō͘ hósè. Ánne. niā'ā. Kakī. nā hósè. liáu'āu.. ho͘ⁿ, thiⁿkha'ē. cūjiân. tō hósè kàliáu, thiⁿ. kah tē. m̄ tō sûi bē koh ta.. a?"
amhoanna
Posts: 912
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:43 pm

Re: Hoklo version of the rainmaker story

Post by amhoanna »

And in "hànlô":

有一兮真遠.兮庄骹..ho͘ⁿh, 佇 hia. 已経久.無落雨..吖. 田.佮艸吇.佮樹林吇.. ho͘ⁿh, 規四界.攏強欲臭火焦.. 去..吖. 落尾.𢙠企 hia. 兮人.想講 bē 駛擱 chiân. 吖, 愛緊招 hit 兮創雨..兮來. 𢙠就差派一陣有頭.有面.兮人.暝日.趕去 kàu 伊蹛. hit 兮外埠頭.姑情伊緊 toè 𢙠轉去 hit 兮真遠.強欲臭火焦. 兮庄骹.來替𢙠創雨.

Hit 兮創雨..兮是一兮真有智慧.兮老歲吇. 伊隨就搭応..吖, 就 toè 𢙠轉..去. 伊講愛佇一兮大艸埔.與伊一間枋寮.通蹛, 擱來.三工內.攏 mài 有人去共伊 cak 造. 咹呢.伊會 tàng 共𢙠拚看 māi.

Hit 兮庄骹.兮頭人.攏照一講..兮來做. 第三暝.誠実落大雨..吖!

一陣作穡人. ná 行. ná 呵咾 hit 兮創雨仙, 挨挨.陣陣.來 kàu 大艸埔.兮中央. hit 間枋寮.問 hit 兮創雨..兮, "師傅.汝到底.是咹怎做..兮? 請汝愛講與阮知."

Hit 兮創雨..兮講 "無..啦, 真簡單..啦. Cit 三工.我就是共阮家己.顧與好势. 咹呢.若定. 家己.若好势.了後.. ho͘ⁿ, 天骹下.自然.就好势及了, 天.佮地.毋就隨 bē 擱焦..吖?"


Thanks for your help, Niuc.
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