words for QUITE, FAIRLY, VERY, etc. in Hoklo-Hokkien

[amhoanna]

Do any of you guys use the word "gō͘sìsaⁿ" (5-4-3)?

[SimL]

I don't know this phrase. What does it mean?

[amhoanna]

To the best of my knowledge, it means "random, inconsequential or irrelevant stuff". Kind of like "ū--ê bô--ê".

Kind of makes sense in "Hoklo numerology": used together, 3 and 5 have a connotation of "here and there", "random", "who cares, I guess". Besides being a cousin of sí, 4 also has a strewn-about connotation as seen in sìsoàⁿ and sìkoè/sìkè...

So maybe gō͘sìsaⁿ was coined in TW, but using "raw, unadulterated" Hoklo.

[amhoanna]

A Luzon update. "Iá" seems to be the standard, neutral word for VERY in Luzon Hokkien, although (unless I'm mistaken) "cin" is used too.

A stronger word for VERY in Philippines Hokkien is "bantài". It's like "sípē" minus the vulgarity. I listened close last time I spoke to a Tsinoy and it was ban˧ tai˥; running T1 is ˧ and running T3 is ˥ in [his] Manila dialect.

Like other Tsinoys from Tagalog-speaking areas, this guy thought the word came from "original" Hokkien and not Tagalog -- there's a word "bantay" meaning WRISTWATCH in Tag., but nothing with a related meaning. He was not impressed w/ my theory that it comes from Ilokano, which has a word "bantay" meaning MOUNTAIN. Words for MOUNTAIN are often related to words for A LOT OF, and words for A LOT OF in turn are often tied to words meaning EXTREMELY. In late pre-Spanish times, there seems to have been a lot of links between the Hokkien-Teochew coast and the Lingayen / Southern Ilokos area. Even today, the premier Tin Hau (Mácó·) temple in the Phils is the one in La Union.

[amhoanna]

And not to be outdone, TWese Hoklo has an equivalent for "sípē" too: iau siū 夭寿, e.g. 夭寿好, 夭寿 suí, etc. The "iau" bucks sandhi rules and takes citation tone; "siū" may as well, but I don't know. This term is also vulgar as the literal meaning means "dying young" or something like that.

[niuc]

Amhoanna, you bring out an interesting point. Now I just knew that 夭 can be iau or iáu. I used to think that it was only iau (T1), may be because I expected it to be T1 like Mandarin. Apparently 夭寿 is indeed iáusiū, so my variant's pronunciation is not an exception but same as TW etc.

However, we never use it as an equivalent for sípē (often knowingly or unknowingly "euphemized" as síbē/síbuē). To my ears, 夭寿好 and 夭寿 suí sound negative (i.e. not supposed to be, something against 命, and probably not lasting) rather than vulgar (like sípē).

In TW, do men also use 夭寿 either as in 夭寿好 or to scold/curse someone?
In my variant, it's very common for women to use it, but hardly men.
Women, especially old ladies, used to shout 夭寿死囝仔 to scold children.
夭寿 is often used as an interjection of surprise by women but not men.
夭寿骨 is often used to means mischievous/naughty and is more neutral (can be used by men as a term, but not in interjection).

[amhoanna]

Interesting pts. I haven't heard the word used much in my limited Hoksperience. I guess we'll have to wait a few yrs for a native spkr from TW to come by here. Or someone can pop this question on Facebook Tâigứsiā.

Does 寿 "sandhi" in these phrases, for Bagan?

夭 takes running T2 in Bagan? I remember running T2 and standing T1 are different in Bagan, right? So this is a good test of the "theory" that 夭 takes standing T1.

[niuc]

Does 寿 "sandhi" in these phrases, for Bagan?

Yes.

夭 takes running T2 in Bagan? I remember running T2 and standing T1 are different in Bagan, right? So this is a good test of the "theory" that 夭 takes standing T1.

Yup, running T2. In Bagan it's clearly neither T1 in standing nor in running.

[FutureSpy]

BTW, what about siaN2? Can it be used in a not negative sentence? So far I've came across sentences like "bo5 siaN2 siok8" (not so cheap) or "bo5 siaN2 toa7" (not so big), but what if I don't add bo5?

[SimL]

Hi FutureSpy,

I recall my grandparents using this "siaN" also, though I think "si-mih" was more common. As with what you observed, I never heard "siaN" used without the "bo".