Wa ma tsai ! (I also know...)

[aokh1979]

Couple of days ago when I said something in Mandarin, it struck me.

你不也去過那個地方？

Does anyone know the 嘛 we always say in Hokkien, could have been something "more concrete" than just an exclamation word ? I then tried to look up for 不也 on the internet. It's used very widely in Mandarin, even myself, then I started making sentences to see if it makes sense to replace with 嘛 in Hokkien.

你不也是我的朋友。汝「嘛」是我个朋友。
這個問題不也得解決？這問題「嘛」著愛解決？
上海不也是好地方。上海「嘛」是好所在。

不 = 不、毋 m
也 = 亦、抑、也 iah -> ah -> a

Does it make sense to you ?

[xng]

不 = 不、毋 m
也 = 亦、抑、也 iah -> ah -> a

Does it make sense to you ?

It is quite possible it is a combination of two characters like mai ie. 毋愛

but the second character has the wrong tone. Ma is low tone.

[niuc]

Thanks, Aokh! It is very probable!

In my variant 也/亦/抑 (the meaning of 也 in Mandarin) is 'ia7' or 'a7'.
So: 'm7' + 'a7' -> 'ma7'. Neat!

[aokh1979]

Hm...... Interesting.

I think 亦 can be iah8, can be a4. Furthermore, I try to keep an open mind that an old language like Hokkien, should not be restricted to the 反切 based on the tone spoken during a particular period. I try to be open-lah......

[amhoanna]

Makes sense! Interesting! Never occurred to me. The 不也 usage seems to have some attitude, or some spin. If m̄ + ā was originally used along those lines, it would've had to go through some evolution to get to what mā is today, at least in TW. We don't have "pun" here to share the workload. Iā is used somewhat frequently and occasionally ā. It may depend on the speaker. I think much of our generation uses mā exclusively——no iā.

[xng]

Hm...... Interesting.

I think 亦 can be iah8, can be a4. Furthermore, I try to keep an open mind that an old language like Hokkien, should not be restricted to the 反切 based on the tone spoken during a particular period. I try to be open-lah......

It's highly possible the tone is 'flexible' but the meaning of 嘛 is 也 and not a negation of 也.

In English, 嘛 means 'also'. eg. I also think so. 'I dont also think so' has the opposite meaning.

[aokh1979]

不也 is not the negation of 也 but rather a rhetorical form of "also".

伊 ma 是汝个朋友
他不也是你的朋友

He is also your friend / He is also your friend wat (Manglish) / Isn't he also your friend ?

[xng]

不也 is not the negation of 也 but rather a rhetorical form of "also".

伊 ma 是汝个朋友
他不也是你的朋友

He is also your friend / He is also your friend wat (Manglish) / Isn't he also your friend ?

If it is a question mark, then shouldn't it be

伊 是汝个朋友 無 ?

Ma is never used as a question mark, as far as I know. It means 'also' and not asking a question and requiring an affirmation.

He is also your friend and NOT isn't he also your friend.

[niuc]

伊 是汝个朋友 無 ?

In my variant, this construction is not found. For 是 si7, the question ends with 不(呣)是 m7-si7 or shorten to mi7 (often mi0, tone neutralized). Only for 有 u7, then the question ends with 無 bo5 (often bo0).

Aokh is right. 不也 in Mandarin "bu4-ye3" and Hokkien "m7-ia7" (at least my variant) is not a negation, but a kind of rhetorical question, i.e. a confirmation.

"M7-ia7" is rarer than "ma7", but both exist in Bagan Hokkien, with slight difference in nuance. The former is a confirmation with a hint of rhetorical question, while the latter has become a direct confirmation.

你不也是我的朋友。
Ni3 bu4ye3 shi4 wo3 de0 peng2you3.
Ly2 m7-ia7-si7-gua2-e5-ping-iu2.
=> 你懷疑什麼, 你根本就是我的朋友啊!

[amhoanna]

So the Bagan m̄ iā "could be" like a missing link. Cool.

One thing, though. I brought this up in another thread too. Do you guys totally not use "kám"??? Not now, not ever?