A site teaching Hokkien

[SimL]

Hi everyone,

I stumbled across this series of clips today. (Apologies if this has been posted before.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLC62zhO ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1z30V32 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYi1fmiX ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1z30V32 ... re=related

There are heaps more in this series, just keep clicking on related links.

Some observations:

- It seems to me that the speaker is Malaysian or Singaporean, from the intonation of his English.

- The Hokkien variant is itself quite intrigueing. It seems to be basically Penang Hokkien, with some non-Penang elements. IMHO, the basic *intonation* sounds very Penang-like, but I hear individual words like "kiək4", "siəng1", which in Penang Hokkien would be "kek4", "seng1. Also, some of the tone contours (particularly the sandhi ones) are not completely Penang-like. But my overall impression is that it's a Penang-base.

I seem to remember making such an observation before, perhaps about the same person / clips. In any case, wonderful that this guy has done this. Particularly as he's made so many clips, and he covers so much "intellectual" vocabulary, like: "grateful", "admire", "convince", "capable", "justice", "feelings", "sacrifice", "reality", "reasonable", "disturbed emotionally", "humble" (none of which I can say in Hokkien).

When I get some time, I'll post some feedback on youtube, thanking him for making the clips.

[xng]

Hi everyone,

It seems to me that the speaker is Malaysian or Singaporean, from the intonation of his English.

No, he's not Malaysian/Singaporean, he's either Taiwanese or Fujianese.

The reason is that some words like 'good temper' is pronounced 'ho sing tay' which is not the usual 'ho phi khi' spoken in my/sg. there are also other examples that are not used in my/sg.

[AndrewAndrew]

Definitely Malaysian/Singaporean, from the slightly-old-fashioned educated English accent and the romanisation on his website. It is a mixture of northern/southern - he uses be for cannot, peh for eight, an-nE, tso for do, but also uses oe for language, soe for small, tiunn for uncle, nng for two. He also once gives mng/mui and moai/be as alternatives. I agree with Sim that is is predominantly northern with occasional standard Amoy influences/affectations.

The uploader on YouTube puts Malaysia as his home.

[xng]

Definitely Malaysian/Singaporean, from the slightly-old-fashioned educated English accent and the romanisation on his website. It is a mixture of northern/southern - he uses be for cannot, peh for eight, an-nE, tso for do, but also uses oe for language, soe for small, tiunn for uncle, nng for two. He also once gives mng/mui and moai/be as alternatives. I agree with Sim that is is predominantly northern with occasional standard Amoy influences/affectations.

The uploader on YouTube puts Malaysia as his home.

How do you explain the taiwanese sayings such as 'phai sing tay' etc which are not used in MY/SG ?

[AndrewAndrew]

How do you explain the taiwanese sayings such as 'phai sing tay' etc which are not used in MY/SG ?

Err ... he has bought some Taiwanese books?

Rather more likely than a Taiwanese buying a Malaysian English accent!

[aokh1979]

How do you explain the taiwanese sayings such as 'phai sing tay' etc which are not used in MY/SG ?

Wait a minute, I rarely hear "phi khi" in Penang. It's always been "seng te" in my variant. Do most people say "phi khi" in your area ? Ask around Penang, it's at least 80% as "seng te", at least among everyone I know.

[Ah-bin]

The only one I've heard PGHK people say is "seng-te" for temper (by the way I think this is the "native" Hokkien expression, rather than the Mandarinised "phi khi").

[Mark Yong]

I second aokh1979 and Ah-bin's observations. While I have heard 脾氣 ph'ĭ-kh'ĭ used in Penang, 性地 sēng-tĕ usage dominates - yes, I would agree with the rough ratio of 80:20.

In general, what I have noticed is that 脾氣 ph'ĭ-kh'ĭ is used in the temporal sense, e.g. 伊今日脾氣【不】好 ī kĭn-jīt ph'ĭ-kh'ĭ bŏ-hô, whereas 性地 sēng-tĕ denotes the subject's general demeanour, e.g. 伊真正否性地 ī cĭn-cīaⁿ ph'āi sēng-tĕ.

I realise the second paragraph somewhat contradicts the first paragraph, as it would imply that Penangites refer to a person's general demeanour vs. his/her temporal state in a ratio of 80:20... but that's just my observation!

[Mark Yong]

SimL wrote:
IMHO, the basic *intonation* sounds very Penang-like, but I hear individual words like "kiək4", "siəng1", which in Penang Hokkien would be "kek4", "seng1.

This phenomenon sounds like a parallel with Portuguese vs. the Malaccan Kristang creole that descended from it. E.g.

English: Thank you
Kristang: Mutu Merseh
Portuguese: Muitas mercês

English: Wife
Kristang: muleh
Portuguese: mulher

It would appear that in descendent creoles (if one may consider Penang Hokkien as a creole! ), a degree of simplification occurs in pronunciation - in this case, merging of diphthongs into a single vowel.

On that note, my observation is that in Penang, there is an almost-equal distribution of speakers who pronounce words like 電, 現 and 連 with the -ie- diphthong vs. those who merge it as a -æ- vowel. As to how I personally handle it, for Romanisation purposes I adopt the more conservative approach and retain the -ie- diphthong, but when I actually speak it (never really thought seriously about it until now), I find myself sitting somewhere in between both extremes, i.e. the words come out something like a 'weak' -eæ- diphthong!

[xng]

Wait a minute, I rarely hear "phi khi" in Penang. It's always been "seng te" in my variant. Do most people say "phi khi" in your area ? Ask around Penang, it's at least 80% as "seng te", at least among everyone I know.

Sorry, I am not living in Penang so my variant is different from yours. I have never heard of 'sing tay' in KL only 'phi khi'.

The first time I heard 'sing tay' is when watching taiwanese shows on TV.

PS. Phi Khi is not used in mandarin only but also in cantonese.