Ta̍kgê hó dari Nusa Bali!
Not much to report on, Hokkien-wise. No conversations in Hoklo here to this point -- not that I expect or expected to have any, unless with gaijin from the Straits or "the other Straits".
There were lots of Peranakan Tn̂glâng here at some point. In the port town of Singaraja in the north, esp. in the streets behind the old port of Buleleng, I saw people with Tn̂glâng looks and old men who wore their "Western clothing" in the Tn̂glâng style. Not a few shops had pale, skinny, glasses-wearing women behind the counter. I also heard about traditional Chinese healers. Yet Tn̂glângjī are a rare sight even in SR. Not sure what the situation was, pre-Suharto. Like in much of the Caribbean, it seems like mixing with the Balinese was/is the rule. Unlike in Sabah, mixed offspring don't speak Hoklo at this pt. Not that that's a shortcoming: they do speak two Austronesian languages with feeling and grace. But I was surprised when a young guy working in a store gave me a ha̍psi̍plé and a well-said "kionghí" after hearing that I came from Nusa Indah. He got the tones right. I'm not sure if he "knew" them, or if it's b/c tone contours 22-32 or 11-32 just happen to match a general Austronesian pattern.
I visited the Lênggoân kiong at the old port of Buleleng, one of the very few Tn̂glâng temples on Bali. It's a Thiⁿkong biō and the central figure is Tân-hú Cinjîn. You wouldn't've known it by looking at them, but all the temple keepers were patrilineally Hoklo. They didn't speak Hoklo, but not surprisingly seemed familiar with a wide range of Hoklo religious terminology. I told them that we on Nusa Indah shared a language with their Hoklo kongmá. It wasn't clear if they understood me or maybe already knew this. They told me that many of the Tn̂glâng settlers were Cantonese or Hainamese, and that the Hakka achieved the greatest wealth through systematic sharing and lending.
Âng s.s. guided me around the temple and seemed disgusted when I didn't make a donation. Dug a huge ingot out of his nose, flicked it away, and turned to chat up a fresh party of visitors.
Untuk gua, Singaraja "felt" different from the rest of Bali. It's a generic tropical port town, with its Chinese and Arab undertones and Malay/Bugis overtones. It used to be on the major trade route from Java to the Maluku. The Dutch changed the trade routes when they arrived, forcing the town into a slow decline. For better or worse, that's probably also why few if any sinkheh arrived on these shores. The split btw a seafaring, opportunistic Moslem "tribe" and a land-based agrarian one is a common theme in this part of the world...
There's a great deal of Hoklo embedded in the lingua franca ("bahasa Malaynesia / Indo-Melayu" ) and written everywhere in lômájī. This is probably true t/o Indonesia and more so in the port cities of Java. You'll see "Cia Gwee 2562" written right under "Gongxi Fatcai". There's a cigarette brand called Dji Sam Soe ("234"). In Banyuwangi on Java I saw the word "anceng" scrawled on a wall. I don't know if it's Javanese or just lingua franca slang but maybe it means "quiet!"? And "cap cay" and "angpau" need no introduction for the Hok-literate. So... Indonesian Hokkiens in most places may be "post-Hokkien", but their lômájī is actually more readable than what you see in M'sia, Sg, or TW.
Hoklo on Bali, reports from the field
Re: Hoklo on Bali, reports from the field
Hi Amhoanna
Marvelous! Thanks for sharing! Please share more!
Marvelous! Thanks for sharing! Please share more!
My wife and I only visited Singaraja once, to the Orthodox Church & its orphanage on a day trip, so we only saw a little of the city. Beside the beautiful Balinese wood carvings (with Christian themes) in the church building, we saw paddy field "flooded" by mirror-like water with gorgeous mountain's reflection on it, also paranomic seaside mountains and beaches, and a Chinese temple. You are right that it seems to be "less Bali" than other places in Pulau Dewata. From what I read, it was the capital of Bali during Dutch occupation and early days of Republik Indonesia. Where did the Dutch change the routes to?Untuk gua, Singaraja "felt" different from the rest of Bali. It's a generic tropical port town, with its Chinese and Arab undertones and Malay/Bugis overtones. It used to be on the major trade route from Java to the Maluku. The Dutch changed the trade routes when they arrived, forcing the town into a slow decline.
IMHO, most Indonesians (except "suku Melayu" that is a minority in Indonesia) do not like the language to be called Malay, Melayu or Malaynesia, especially after Malaysia claimed copyright on batik (originally from Java) and other Indonesian cultural heritages these few years. Ironically, current M'sia PM and many of its royal families are actually Bugis from Sulawesi instead of "true" Melayu.There's a great deal of Hoklo embedded in the lingua franca ("bahasa Malaynesia / Indo-Melayu" ) and written everywhere in lômájī. This is probably true t/o Indonesia and more so in the port cities of Java.
I have never seen this word. However, better not to use it as it sounds like "anjing" (dog)!In Banyuwangi on Java I saw the word "anceng" scrawled on a wall. I don't know if it's Javanese or just lingua franca slang but maybe it means "quiet!"?
Re: Hoklo on Bali, reports from the field
I second niuc's comments. It's great to hear about the Hokkien-related aspects of places all over S.E. Asia. Great reports, which I enjoy reading very much .
Specifically, for this latest one: it's very hard for me to imagine a group of people continuing to practice traditional Chinese folk religion, without having a command of the language any more. I suppose, as long as one knows (and continues to use) Chinese (in this case Hokkien) words for the key concepts, then the rest of the conversation can take place in Bahasa Indonesia (or any of the local Indonesian languages). But still, it seems slightly odd to me. [That last statement is not meant to be a "criticism" or "negative observation" about such a situation in any way - just a comment on *my* personal "first reaction" to such information.]
Specifically, for this latest one: it's very hard for me to imagine a group of people continuing to practice traditional Chinese folk religion, without having a command of the language any more. I suppose, as long as one knows (and continues to use) Chinese (in this case Hokkien) words for the key concepts, then the rest of the conversation can take place in Bahasa Indonesia (or any of the local Indonesian languages). But still, it seems slightly odd to me. [That last statement is not meant to be a "criticism" or "negative observation" about such a situation in any way - just a comment on *my* personal "first reaction" to such information.]
Re: Hoklo on Bali, reports from the field
Thanks, guys!
It seems to work differently in Siam, though. This goes back to the hoanna discussions.
Are there any "halal" terms for the language in the .ID context besides "bahasa Indonesia"? Something "organic" like Paak-wa for Cantonese?
These kind of things never end. I mean, some people in TW seem to get hurt if U imply that Hoklo didn't originate in TW.
I see what U mean. It's probably closely tied: religion and language use.But still, it seems slightly odd to me.
It seems to work differently in Siam, though. This goes back to the hoanna discussions.
So the majority group on the Straits side of Sumatra would be "suku Melayu"? And identify as Melayu?IMHO, most Indonesians (except "suku Melayu" that is a minority in Indonesia) do not like the language to be called Malay, Melayu or Malaynesia, especially after Malaysia claimed copyright on batik (originally from Java) and other Indonesian cultural heritages these few years. Ironically, current M'sia PM and many of its royal families are actually Bugis from Sulawesi instead of "true" Melayu.
Are there any "halal" terms for the language in the .ID context besides "bahasa Indonesia"? Something "organic" like Paak-wa for Cantonese?
These kind of things never end. I mean, some people in TW seem to get hurt if U imply that Hoklo didn't originate in TW.
Re: Hoklo on Bali, reports from the field
Yes, especially in Riau (Daratan & Kepulauan) and eastern part of Sumatra Utara. Bahasa Indonesia is based on Riau Malay, which is slightly different from Malaysian Malay e.g. "-a" in the end of a word is pronounced as it is ("-a") instead of Malaysian "-ə" (schwa).amhoanna wrote:So the majority group on the Straits side of Sumatra would be "suku Melayu"? And identify as Melayu?
Informally we usually say "bahasa Indo". Although "Indo" originally means India (or Indus), there it becomes a short form for Indonesia.Are there any "halal" terms for the language in the .ID context besides "bahasa Indonesia"?Something "organic" like Paak-wa for Cantonese?
"orang Indo" means Indonesians, "balik Indo" means go back to Indonesia, however "Indo" is also used - depends on context - to mean "Eurasian" (mixed ancestry of European & Indonesian).
"Artis Indo" = Indonesian actress/actor.
"Artis itu Indo" (or better: "Artis itu campuran Indo") = That actress/actor is Eurasian.
Indeed political & subjective!These kind of things never end. I mean, some people in TW seem to get hurt if U imply that Hoklo didn't originate in TW.
Re: Hoklo on Bali, reports from the field
Oh great to have this question answered. I feel that I have a vague idea of what it means to feel a "Malaysian Malay" (in as much as I can, given that I'm not a member of the group, and haven't lived there for many years), but I have often wondered what type of identity the native speakers of Malay in Indonesia have. I've asked a few Indonesians over the years, but never really got a clear answer. Either they didn't know, or (more likely) they didn't really understand my question.niuc wrote:Yes, especially in Riau (Daratan & Kepulauan) and eastern part of Sumatra Utara.amhoanna wrote:So the majority group on the Straits side of Sumatra would be "suku Melayu"? And identify as Melayu?
Re: Hoklo on Bali, reports from the field
Sim, I met many who identified themselves as "Melayu" in Malaysia and Singapore with parents or forefathers from Jawa, Bawean, Minang, Mandailing, Bugis, etc. None of those groups in Indonesia refer to themselves as "suku Melayu". However for Msia, it's hardly surprising, since even Mahathir who is technically an Indian identifies himself as Malay.SimL wrote:I feel that I have a vague idea of what it means to feel a "Malaysian Malay" (in as much as I can, given that I'm not a member of the group, and haven't lived there for many years), but I have often wondered what type of identity the native speakers of Malay in Indonesia have.
Re: Hoklo on Bali, reports from the field
Hi niuc,niuc wrote:Sim, I met many who identified themselves as "Melayu" in Malaysia and Singapore with parents or forefathers from Jawa, Bawean, Minang, Mandailing, Bugis, etc. None of those groups in Indonesia refer to themselves as "suku Melayu". However for Msia, it's hardly surprising, since even Mahathir who is technically an Indian identifies himself as Malay.SimL wrote:I feel that I have a vague idea of what it means to feel a "Malaysian Malay" (in as much as I can, given that I'm not a member of the group, and haven't lived there for many years), but I have often wondered what type of identity the native speakers of Malay in Indonesia have.
Yes, this is true, but actually I understand it completely (and don't even find it odd).
One's "identity" can be very separate from one's "genetics" or even one's "cultural roots". My little niece is the first generation in my family to be born in Australia, but she will probably have a 99.9% Australian identity; the 0.1% would be "yeah, my father is Chinese from Malaysia". And it goes even further. One doesn't even have to be born in the "new" country to identify strongly/completely with that country. I and my two brothers were all born in Malaysia, and they are probably very similar to me "genetically", but when our family migrated to Australia, I was already 14, whereas my two brothers were only 5 and 6. "So", I strongly identify as Baba (as everyone on this Forum probably knows ), whereas neither of my brothers (only 8-9 years younger) has a Baba identity. Of these two brothers, both identify as Australian, but one identifies quite strongly as Chinese also, and the other doesn't - he's 99.9% Australian; the 0.1% in his case would be: "Yeah, I guess I was born in Malaysia, and have eaten a lot of Asian dishes". The first one went as far as to take 1-2 years of Chinese classes, whereas the other can't even write his personal name in Chinese. A similar case is two of my cousins - sisters of one another, and only 1-2 years apart. Both were also born in Malaysia but went to Australia as quite young children. One has a strong Hakka and Chinese identity, the other not at all.
Anyway, rather a long-winded explanation to illustrate that (IMHO) one develops one's identity as one grows up, and that that development can go one way or another as an interaction between one's "external circumstances" and one's "personality". None of it needs to be based on blood/genes or cultural roots, and almost none of it based on "deterministic, rational criteria". (I don't mean the process is irrational - each step in the development probably has "understandable" reasons - but these reasons aren't iron-cast logical ones; i.e. it's never necessarily the case that "both your parents are Javanese, so you are Javanese".)
I tried to explain this to Hong, a long time ago, because he wanted <X> to speak <variety-Y-of-Hokkien>, because "that was the variety spoken by <X>'s grandfather". But that's a foolish position to take, because <X> may not have a <Y>-identity at all! I may have mentioned at that time that if I hadn't spent the formative years of 7-14 in Penang with my paternal Baba relatives, but instead in Seremban with my Amoyish maternal relatives, I might have grown up speaking Mandarin, and have a very "sin-kheh" identity. It's so much based on the "accidents of one's childhood experiences".
I hope this makes sense!
Re: Hoklo on Bali, reports from the field
Hi Sim
Thank you for sharing. I enjoy reading it as usual. I can understand what you mean, and that should be a common phenomenon. However, I think to identify with a (new) national identity is quite different from to identify with a tribe or ethnic-group. For a Javanese to identify himself as Melayu (not merely Malaysian) is akin to a Shangdong to identify himself as Hoklo/Hokkien in Taiwan; or for a Javanese to think of himself as a Tagalog (not merely Filipino) in Manila.
I agree with you that while language is closely related to identity, there are many obvious exceptions. Many Indonesian Chinese strongly identify themselves as Chinese although they can't understand any Chinese languages. And it seems that there are some Lebanese who think of themselves as Phoenicians (instead of Arab) and yet Phoenician language is dead.
Thank you for sharing. I enjoy reading it as usual. I can understand what you mean, and that should be a common phenomenon. However, I think to identify with a (new) national identity is quite different from to identify with a tribe or ethnic-group. For a Javanese to identify himself as Melayu (not merely Malaysian) is akin to a Shangdong to identify himself as Hoklo/Hokkien in Taiwan; or for a Javanese to think of himself as a Tagalog (not merely Filipino) in Manila.
I agree with you that while language is closely related to identity, there are many obvious exceptions. Many Indonesian Chinese strongly identify themselves as Chinese although they can't understand any Chinese languages. And it seems that there are some Lebanese who think of themselves as Phoenicians (instead of Arab) and yet Phoenician language is dead.
Re: Hoklo on Bali, reports from the field
Hi niuc,
You make a valid distinction between "new" national identities such as "Australian", "Malaysian", "Filipino", and long(er) established "ethnic groups". And I agree, it's much easier to adopt the former than the latter. Nevertheless, the line between the two is possibly less distinct than might appear. Some ethnic identities - for example (perhaps) Baba - are perhaps younger than an "Australian" identity (very hard to say..., it's subtle stuff).
I agree totally with what you point out, about people who don't speak a word of Chinese identifying as Chinese (and having every right to do so, of course). The information on the Lebanese-Phoenician identity is fascinating!
You make a valid distinction between "new" national identities such as "Australian", "Malaysian", "Filipino", and long(er) established "ethnic groups". And I agree, it's much easier to adopt the former than the latter. Nevertheless, the line between the two is possibly less distinct than might appear. Some ethnic identities - for example (perhaps) Baba - are perhaps younger than an "Australian" identity (very hard to say..., it's subtle stuff).
I agree totally with what you point out, about people who don't speak a word of Chinese identifying as Chinese (and having every right to do so, of course). The information on the Lebanese-Phoenician identity is fascinating!