Hi Ah-bin,
>> 3) to be bitter
Thanks for the "tart" definitions. For the 3rd usage, which OED gives as "to be bitter", my usage actually differs quite a bit from it. I use "tart" for "acidic"/"pungent" and
not for "bitter".
Now, it's hard with these sorts of 'sense' things to *really* know what another person is perceiving, i.e. do two different people 'sense' the same thing, when they both say that a thing is "red" (or "sweet", etc). That's a deep philosophical thing, but really, as long as two different people agree that a long list of objects all are "red" (or "sweet" etc), when we can say that they are using the same concept of "red" (or "sweet" etc), even if we can't know what they are actually perceiving in their individual brains.
So, having made that qualification, my distinction between "bitter" and "acidic/pungent" is that dark chocolate, "khO kua" (= "bitter melon", "bitter gourd") [=
苦瓜] (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_gourd) are "bitter", not "acidic" or "pungent".
So, for me, "tart" goes with "acidic" or "pungent", and all three will make my eyes water in their most extreme form, whereas something which is "bitter" will not make my eyes water, even in its most extreme form.
Then I need to try and pin down the difference between "acidic"/"pungent"/"tart", and "sour". Again, the "eye-watering test" works for my perceptions. Lemons, limes, and unripe mangos are "sour" but not "acidic"/"pungent"/"tart", because excessively sour things will not make my eyes water.
The last thing is to try and pin down the difference between "acidic"/"pungent"/"tart" and "hot/spicey". Here, I think "pungent" should move more into the "hot/spicey" family, even though for the other contrasts (i.e. with "bitter" and "hot/spicey", "pungent" did belong with "acidic/tart"). This one is difficult, as extreme forms of "acidic/tart" and "hot/spicey" both do make my eyes water. Here, I suppose I would use the "hairy-tongue" test. If it leaves a "hairy" feeling on my tongue, then I think of it as "acidic/tart", whereas if it leaves a glowing feeling in my whole mouth, then I think of it as "hot/spicey". This is for me exactly the difference between "siap" and "luah" in Hokkien. Unripe guavas (jambu biji), and both persimmons [according to Wikipedia =
柿] and quinces [according to Wikipedia =
榲桲] at any stage except very, very ripe are all "acidic/tart" - they leave a soapy/hairy feeling on the tongue, but no 'glow' afterwards, whereas pepper, chilli, wasabi, raw garlic, ginger, and mustard are "hot" - they leave a 'glow' but no soapy/hairy feeling. So, I group "acidic/tart" with "astringent", which, as I said, is another word I use for "siap".
Interestingly, when doing research to write up this reply, I came across the word "astringent" 3 times in Wikipedia! In the article on Persimmons (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persimmon) there is the line "The fruit has a high tannin content which makes the immature fruit
astringent and bitter. The fruit has a high tannin content which makes the immature fruit astringent and bitter." In the article on Quinces (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quince), there is the line "Most varieties of quince are too hard,
astringent and sour to eat raw unless 'bletted' (softened by frost and subsequent decay)." Finally, in the article on Diospyros kaki (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diospyros_kaki), also known as Japanese Persimmon or Sharon Fruit, there is the line "In many cultivars, known as the
astringent varieties, the fruit has a high tannin content which makes the immature fruit astringent and bitter." I found these while looking up the proper names of the fruits which I knew - from my real -world experience - to be "siap", so it looks "astringent"
is a pretty good English word to use for "siap".
So, to summarize the above and relate it back to Hokkien, my taste descriptions and the corresponding things I think of as having them is given below:
khO2 = bitter: dark chocolate, bitter melon
suiN1 = sour: lemons, limes, unripe mangos
luah8 = hot/spicey: pepper, chilli, wasabi, raw garlic, ginger, mustard
siap4 = tart/astringent: unripe guavas, non-overripe persimmons and quinces
and for completeness:
tiN1 = sweet: sugar, beetroot
kiam5 = salty: salt, light soy sauce
Interestingly, the Wikipedia article on taste (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste) recognizes 5 of my 6, and adds "umami". It doesn't recognize "tart/astringent" as a basic taste, possibly because it's considered a sub-taste of sour or bitter:
"For a long period, it was commonly accepted that there is a finite and small number of "basic tastes" of which all seemingly complex tastes are ultimately composed. Just as with primary colors, the "basic" quality of those sensations derives chiefly from the nature of human perception, in this case the different sorts of tastes the human tongue can identify. Until the 2000s, the number of "basic" tastes was considered to be four (bitterness, saltiness, sourness, and sweetness). More recently, a fifth taste, "savory" or "umami", has been proposed by a large number of authorities associated with this field.[17] In Asian countries within the sphere of mainly Chinese, Indian and Japanese cultural influence, Piquance has traditionally been considered a sixth basic taste."
. Someone who is stingy has salty and astringent*** blood flowing through their veins.
. I'll think about it on the weekend, and try and write it again.