Penang Hokkien Vocabulary Questions

[Ah-bin]

I think there actually might be a mistake in the book, as I have found 𠢕揀 as a Taiwanese equivalent of "fussy" - not of "creative" and it would make sense as "discerning" rather than "fussy" I think, which has a negative connotation.

At least now we are down to two!

I think the hoan-soan could be either 番選 or 翻選, but I still can't find them anywhere.

I found another odd one that I can't find - it's "na na" for boils..... actually I have got it now, it should be "nah-nah" but my green Chiang-chiu dictionary says this is "goosebumps" rather than boils.

[niuc]

I found another odd one that I can't find - it's "na na" for boils..... actually I have got it now, it should be "nah-nah" but my green Chiang-chiu dictionary says this is "goosebumps" rather than boils.

May be this "na na" is related to "nanah" which in Indonesian means pus instead of boils?
Goosebumps in my variant is called mng5-kau5 (毛猴 according to 台華線頂辭典), to have them is called chiu*5-mng5-kau5.

[Ah-bin]

Thank you Niuc for that.

Now I am almost 100% sure that gâu-kéng for "creative" is just a mistake. I've heard Bhante Dhammavudho and the PGHK podcast use it now, in the sense of "discerning"

[SimL]

May be this "na na" is related to "nanah" which in Indonesian means pus instead of boils?

As far as I know, in Penang Hokkien, "boils" is "mi7-sue2" and "pus" is "na7-na2".

Goosebumps in my variant is called mng5-kau5 (毛猴 according to 台華線頂辭典), to have them is called chiu*5-mng5-kau5.

We say "mO5-kui2 chang3", which I've always thought of as "hair devil stick-up". Perhaps - strictly speaking - this should mean "when the hair at the back of your neck rises, from fear", but I use it for any form of goosebumps, even when caused by cold, without any association with fear necessarily.

[SimL]

As far as I know, in Penang Hokkien, "boils" is "mi7-sue2" and "pus" is "na7-na2".

I checked with my parents, and they both confirm this, for Penang Hokkien usage.

May be this "na na" is related to "nanah" which in Indonesian means pus instead of boils?

Indeed. My parents seemed to think that "mi-sue" is also from Malay, although they don't know the corresponding Malay word. One of the reasons my mother thinks this is that she didn't use it in her original Amoy variant.

What is the Malay word for "boil", and what is the word for "boil" in your variant, niuc?

[niuc]

Hi Sim

My parents seemed to think that "mi-sue" is also from Malay...
What is the Malay word for "boil", and what is the word for "boil" in your variant, niuc?

It is "bisul" in Bahasa Indonesia, not sure about Malaysia. "Mi-sue" does sound like "bisul". In my variant it is called liap8-a0 粒仔. Having lots of boils is called 生粒[發]角 si*1-liap8 pu4-kak4.

[SimL]

Hi niuc,

Thanks very much! Both the Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Malaysia Wikipedia articles on "bisul" show the same main picture, so it seems to be the same word in both. Both articles link to the English Wikipedia article "Abscess", not to the English Wikipedia article "Boil". Apparently, "abscess" is a broader category than "boil". An abscess is any accumulation of pus, whereas a boil is an accumulation of pus caused by inflammation of a hair follicle (the things one can learn from Wikipedia!).

In any case, the distinction is not very important for our present discussion - we can take "bisul" to mean "boil" (also). And yes, indeed, it seems very probable to me that "bisul" is the origin of Penang Hokkien "mi7-sue2" (there's even a parallel to Malay "botol" vs Penang Hokkien "bO7-tOi1"; i.e. "-ol" going to "-Oi" is very similar to "-ul" going to "-ue").

I assume you put the 發 in brackets because you're not sure if that's the correct character for the "pu4" in your phrase...?

[niuc]

Hi Sim

Yup, I like to read Wikipedia too! Also interesting to know how -l sound in loanwords being "assimilated" in Penang Hokkien. Thanks!

I assume you put the 發 in brackets because you're not sure if that's the correct character for the "pu4" in your phrase...?

Yes, the Taiwanese Hokkien IME lists 發 for puh4. The meaning is appropriate, but I am not sure if it is the correct character.

[Ah-bin]

That 發 for puh is probably correct, I believe it's just the vernacular cognate of literary hoat. I'm pleased to finally come across it in a word. Some of the old vernacular readings have been replaced completely by the Late Middle Chinese borrowings.

I often try to imagine what Hokkien would sound like without the Late Middle Chinese component. I suppose hoat-bêng 發明 would be pronounced as puh-miâ, and hong-súi 風水 as puiⁿ-chúi.

[SimL]

I often try to imagine what Hokkien would sound like without the Late Middle Chinese component. I suppose hoat-bêng 發明 would be pronounced as puh-miâ, and hong-súi 風水 as puiⁿ-chúi.

Is the "Late Middle Chinese component" why we have -h, -p, -t, -k instead of just -h? (If so, I guess I'm grateful for it, as I'm sort of "proud" of our postvocalic consonants .)