Hokkien alternative names for Technology Stuff

[amhoanna]

Sheik's CantoDict, which is a wiki, has 嗍 for sok / TO SUCK. That hanji's Greek to me, but the radical looks spot on. The correspondence with Hoklo suh or soh TO SUCK is convincing. For now I'm open-minded to the possibility of this cognate set being either Sino or non-.

[Mark Yong]

Hi, amhoanna,

You might be on to something. Here's what I dug up on 嗍: http://www.zdic.net/zd/zi/ZdicE5Zdic97Zdic8D.htm
《集韻》色角切，音朔。吮也。本作欶。或作嗽𠲿。

Or, even better, if we follow on from the above reference to 欶: http://www.zdic.net/zd/zi/ZdicE6ZdicACZdicB6.htm
《廣韻》所角切《集韻》《韻會》色角切，𠀤音朔。《說文》吮也。《通俗文》含吸也。

Time for me to drop 索!

[Ah-bin]

Wonderful!!!!!

I've been thinking about that word for a few days now, as I wanted to enter it, but also enter 嗍草 - a drinking straw. The Hokkien input system gives only 噪 and 索, and I wasn't satisfied with either, so i was going to give up and give it the square treatment (□)...no need to do that any more, thanks Mark.

Mortal words can't describe the coolness of these words. "Kiâmcúikng"! I know Ah-bin either has these words in his database, or will be taking them down, so we can all pàngsim.

They are in the dictionary now!

[Mark Yong]

I think the credit should go to amhoanna for starting off the search trail with 嗍. I just copied-and-pasted it into ZDict, and out came 欶.

[SimL]

Well, part of the credit can go to me, for asking what the character for "soh" was in the first place . But sure, thanks amhoanna and Mark! This dictionary is going to be a *spectacular* work...

[amhoanna]

Thanks, Mark and Sim. Good work, everybody. I just went on 台華綫頂. Turns out they've also used 欶 and 嗍 for suh/soh. Which of these two "historically alternative" hanji do U guys find to be "preferable", and why?

Penang Hokkien for STRAW is sohcháu 嗍艸? Interesting -- the word I know (TWese) is suhkóng.

[SimL]

... Penang Hokkien for STRAW is sohcháu 嗍艸? Interesting -- the word I know (TWese) is suhkóng.

Well, actually, *my* Penang Hokkien word for STRAW is "strO2" . [Ducks for cover!]

[Mark Yong]

amhoanna wrote:
Which of these two "historically alternative" hanji do U guys find to be "preferable", and why?

That's a tricky one, given that both characters have identical 反切 readings in the 《廣韻》, and the definitions are both spot-on.

If I had to choose, I would go for 欶, simply because it "came first" (based on the citation provided above).

But then again, I admit I am also not consistent, because I use 睏 instead of 困 for khun (sleep), even though the latter is supposedly the true 本字. My preference is simply because I like the 目 radical clarifying the meaning 'sleep', and hence, distinguishing it from 'difficulty'. I guess that is my way of saying that if 欶 had an earlier and different meaning from 'to suck', then I would probably go for 嗍 instead.

[Yeleixingfeng]

Why does everyone uses 艸 as the punji for what I suppose would be 草?

Mark Yong,
LOL, I quite agree with you on the 後生字 issue, though I don't see how difficulty and sleepiness would relate..? Though, for 欶 I actually prefer 欶 regardless of its other layers of meaning. Maybe it is due to my prejudice towards all 口-radical characters - being etymologically baseless, and 欠 actually is an older from of the current 口, used to denote anything related to the mouth, or grammatical particles - 歟, 欬, 欸, 歕, 歎, 歃 etc.. Though, what advantage does it give over 唉, 噴 and 嘆... I don't really know (>.< Told you its a prejudice), besides to differentiate the meaningless onomatopoeic 口 and the etymologically-relevant 口.

[amhoanna]

Thanks, Mark.

Yelei,

I'm under the impression that 艸 is more "original" than 草.

Also, 草 is basically just a radical plus a phonetic element. I forget, are these chars called 形聲字?

I can see how ideographs (指示字, 會意字, 象形字) have some advantages over phonetic scripts (e.g. Hangưl), and how Hangưl and co. have advantages over ideographs. But I don't see the point of "rad-phon" hanji. In fact I think they defeat the whole purpose of hanji.

Now, "rad-hangưl" characters, that would be something else altogether.

This is my opinion, and I must admit I am a hoanná. I don't believe in using something that's neither efficient (like hangưḷ) nor cool (like ideographs) just b/c we've been using it.

It kind of makes me cringe too to see written Cantonese with 口口口 characters all over the page. But wouldn't 口 be the perfect radical for a hanji that means TO SUCK?