Passing through and passing by

[Ah-bin]

I was wondering whether Hokkien (of any kind) usually makes a distinction between "passing through" and "passing by" things.

Wá túiⁿ-chhù tióh-beh keng-kòe pé•h-hûn-soaⁿ. 我轉厝著欲經過白雲山.

Does this means "I have to pass a cemetary on my way home" or "I have to pass through a cemetary on my way home"?

Or maybe keng-kòe means "go through" and to say "go past" I need to say kòe affixed to another verb,

like:
走過 cháu-kòe "to run past"
行過 kiâⁿ-kòe "to walk past"

Or is it possible to express "I have to pass a cemetary on my way home" with just kòe?

like so:

Wá túiⁿ-chhù tióh-beh kòe pé•h-hûn-soaⁿ. 我轉厝著欲過白雲山.

[aokh1979]

All works. I often use 經過 and 過.

Sometimes, I might say:
我轉茨 (tshù) 得 (tiòh) 按白雲山過。

Just a side note, I suppose the "-" between 2 different syllable triggers tone sandhi when we speak, right ?

Do you realise that we never change tone if the character comes before 過 ?

[Ah-bin]

Thanks very much for that Aokh, and yes, the point about the dash is something I need to clear up in the dictionary. I knew it didn't sandhi with the "experiential" 過, (have done once did etc.) but for some reason I thought the 經過 would be different.

BTW I think that meaning of 得 meaning "have to" doesn't have a very long history even in written Mandarin. The basic meaning was always like 趁 thàn in Hokkien, and the "dei" meaning is just using it as a borrowed character to represent a different word in colloquial speech that had no character.

[siamiwako]

I'm not an expert in this field, but don't you say kia-dip (as in kia-dip-ki) to mean 走入?

[amhoanna]

Cool word, 白雲山! BTW do people in Penang bury their dead on hillsides like in northern TW?

This is what I use:
... ùi XXX koè = TO PASS BY XXX
... kiâⁿ ùi XXX = TO WALK THROUGH XXX
... se̍h ùi XXX = TO GO (LEISURELY) THROUGH XXX
... and so on...

In TW, "keng" in the verb "kengkoè" "obeys sandhi". "Kiâⁿ" in "kiâⁿ koè hia" obeys sandhi. "Kiâⁿ" in "kiâⁿ--koè" takes citation.

[siamiwako]

Interesting to know it's also called as 白雲山.
We usually say sin-sua colloquially and I'm not sure which word for sin but the intonation suggests closer to 新 than 神. Perhaps, people didn't bother lengthening the pronunciation.

However, our min-nan is never fluent.

[niuc]

We say 出山 for funeral although there is no 山 around Bagansiapiapi. Many traditional Chinese cementaries around Jakarta are on hillsides and very expensive, more than 20x price of public cementaries. We just call cementary thióng 塚. Is 白雲山 a general term meaning cementary in Penang-uā or a place name?

我轉厝著欲經過白雲山　-> this sounds natural in my variant.
我轉茨 (tshù) 得 (tiòh) 按白雲山過。-> my variant: 我轉茨 (tshù) 得 (tiòh) 過白雲山 or 我轉茨 (tshù) 得 (tiòh) 對(tuì)雲山過.
[Actually we usually just say tò 倒 instead of 轉厝/茨. We also often pronounce 著 as tòh if followed by verbs e.g. the samples above. Since our sandhi for T8 is T3, in 我倒著欲經過白雲山, citation for 倒 and sandhi 著, I say/hear two to3!]

For me, 經過 and 過 can mean both passing through and passing by. For an area / big place like cementary, they tend to mean passing through. But for a building, they tend to mean passing by. If I walk by the side of (passing by) the cementary but not passing through it, I still can use 經過 and 過, same as passing through; but to be precise, I'd add (白雲山)邊仔. For a building, I'd add 內/內面 for passing through. If I pass by that area but not directly in front of that cementary/building, I'd add 附近 for clarification.

Tone sandhi for the word before 過 in my variant is the same as described by Amhoanna.

Siamiwako, kiâⁿ_dïp 走入 in my variant means walking into, rather than passing through. I can "feel" that your sin-suaⁿ most probably is 新山 (we have 新塚 and 舊塚 in Bagansiapiapi). Btw Sin-suaⁿ 新山 in Singapore and Malaysia means Johor Bahru.

[siamiwako]

For me, 經過 and 過 can mean both passing through and passing by. For an area / big place like cementary, they tend to mean passing through. But for a building, they tend to mean passing by. If I walk by the side of (passing by) the cementary but not passing through it, I still can use 經過 and 過, same as passing through; but to be precise, I'd add (白雲山)邊仔. For a building, I'd add 內/內面 for passing through. If I pass by that area but not directly in front of that cementary/building, I'd add 附近 for clarification.

I totally agree with what you said above.

Siamiwako, kiâⁿ_dïp 走入 in my variant means walking into, rather than passing through. I can "feel" that your sin-suaⁿ most probably is 新山 (we have 新塚 and 舊塚 in Bagansiapiapi). Btw Sin-suaⁿ 新山 in Singapore and Malaysia means Johor Bahru.

Why is JB called 新山? Does that mean that there's 舊山?
Sorry I'm unfamiliar with Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia region. Enlighten me please ^^

[niuc]

I have never heard of 舊山 here, and not sure why JB is 新山. May be Malaysians here can help to explain.

[AndrewAndrew]

Yes, a lot of the prime hill land in Penang is covered with graveyards (in Penang apart from the coast everything is hill)

I thought 白雲山 specifically referred to Mount Erskine/Vale of Tempe in Penang (there is one of the biggest Chinese cemeteries there)?