Hello Dear All:
I have started practicing Hokkien-only policy in Penang. Of course I dun include those who obviously do not speak the language. I target Chinese strangers. Let me share with you 2 experiences. The 1st one happened some time ago.
Experience 1:
I was passing by a credit card promotion booth in Queensbay Mall the other day. A very well-mannered and good looking gentleman walked up to me and asked in Mandarin: Mister, 有用信用卡嗎？ I smiled at him and responded in Hokkien: Sorry, 我昧曉聽。 He replied: Oh, OK. And he walked away. Can't he even try to approach me in English or Malay ? Is Mandarin his ONLY option ?
Experience 2: (this happened only 3 days ago)
I and a good friend went to this very cozy little coffee shop named in a very commonly understood Hokkien word. We found an empty table and sat down. A very young girl (about the age of 14 - 16) came with a small notepad, asked us in Mandarin: 你們要吃甚麼東西？ As usual, I turned to her, smiled and said: Sorry, 我儂昧曉聽。 And she walked away. I mean, she walked away because she dinno how to react. No, she din ask us to wait, she din tell us she'd look for someone else to help, she just walked away out of all sudden. A very friendly auntie came to take order, we cracked jokes and the whole afternoon tea ended well. Before we left, we heard the young girl telling the elderly that these 2 customers din speak any Mandarin. I and my friend heard it. I came home, I saw a friend of mine posted a photo of that same coffee shop in Facebook. So I left a rather simple comment, I said: Just came back from there. Food wise, the coffee's a little plain. Service wise, it's good but the youngest waitress walked away when we said we din understand Mandarin.
You know what happened next ? The owner is a friend of my friend too, unfortunately. She saw it and she left a bombastic comment in terrible English (worse than mine XD) that said: Thank you for dropping by today...... (removed 50 words regarding the coffee) ...... and you adults, how can you grown people test a little girl like that. Please bear in mind that she's still schooling and everything she has is just school and her family to teach her about life. I want you adults to think twice next time when you try to test someone. Please dun forget that Hokkien is not even taught in her school.......
Mamma mia. What have I done ? I grew up in a typical kopitiam, my father ran it and I helped serving since 13 but I spoke 5 languages. All I had was school and family too. Schools teach at least 3 languages, right ? If the customers dun speak Mandarin, can't she speak English or Malay ? If it's a Mandarin only territory, I suppose they should have mentioned it. What have I done so terribly wrong ?
Hokkien-Only Policy
Re: Hokkien-Only Policy
If I may offer my candid opinions on your friend's Facebook comments...
1. 14-16 is already secondary school age. She is no longer a ‘little girl’ as described.
2. Strictly-speaking, you did not ‘test’ her. All you did was make a statement. Granted, we all know that you were being mildly 乖卵 kūai-lân (and that be your only sin in this episode
). But benefit of the doubt should be given to the customer that he/she really does not understand Mandarin, right?
3. I grew up and lived in Malaysia and Singapore for 90% of my life. There are infinitely worse things that coffee-shop staff have to tolerate from rougher customers, than being politely (you said “Sorry” and you smiled - to me, that's being polite) told “我儂【不會】曉聽” by a customer when using Mandarin to take drinks orders.
4. If your friend thinks that even that is too much, then she should not hire the poor girl and expect her to face customers. Now, I understand that sometimes, that option is not available. In that case, the parents should encourage her to use the other languages that she learnt at school. As a parent myself, I would opt for the latter. These are life skills. The common cop-out that I used to hear from overly-protective parents in Penang in response to the question on how long they intend to shelter their children from the outside world, i.e. “等到我目珠𠖫去先 tǎn kāu wǎ bâk-ciū khâm khî sēng” is, to me, unfair and unkind to the child in the long run.
Okay, now that we have gotten my comments about your friend's Facebook post out of the way...
Therein lies the problem with the education system. Granted, the Malaysian Chinese primary schools boast a very high standard of Mandarin (and many testify that year-for-year, their Mandarin is of a higher standard than their Singaporean counterparts). But the corresponding development of fluency in English and Malay is lopsided. It does not help that the parents choose to speak only Mandarin to their children at home. The result is, the children effectively become mono-lingual in Mandarin. I once had a 15-year-old tell me in Hokkien, “我無看紅毛戲、因爲我不知伊儂佇講何物。”
And it is not as if their Mandarin is better than their counterparts in Mainland China or Taiwan (if so, then shame on the latter!). I have colleagues from Shanghai who speak much better English than many of the current generation of Malaysian Chinese school graduates, a generous sampling of whom I used to share an office with in recent times.
So, I do not fault the poor girl for not trying to speak in English or Malay to you. She probably could not confidently string a decent sentence together in either language to save her life. I hold the education system first, and the parents second, responsible for this sad state of affairs.
1. 14-16 is already secondary school age. She is no longer a ‘little girl’ as described.
2. Strictly-speaking, you did not ‘test’ her. All you did was make a statement. Granted, we all know that you were being mildly 乖卵 kūai-lân (and that be your only sin in this episode
). But benefit of the doubt should be given to the customer that he/she really does not understand Mandarin, right?3. I grew up and lived in Malaysia and Singapore for 90% of my life. There are infinitely worse things that coffee-shop staff have to tolerate from rougher customers, than being politely (you said “Sorry” and you smiled - to me, that's being polite) told “我儂【不會】曉聽” by a customer when using Mandarin to take drinks orders.
4. If your friend thinks that even that is too much, then she should not hire the poor girl and expect her to face customers. Now, I understand that sometimes, that option is not available. In that case, the parents should encourage her to use the other languages that she learnt at school. As a parent myself, I would opt for the latter. These are life skills. The common cop-out that I used to hear from overly-protective parents in Penang in response to the question on how long they intend to shelter their children from the outside world, i.e. “等到我目珠𠖫去先 tǎn kāu wǎ bâk-ciū khâm khî sēng” is, to me, unfair and unkind to the child in the long run.
Okay, now that we have gotten my comments about your friend's Facebook post out of the way...
Therein lies the problem with the education system. Granted, the Malaysian Chinese primary schools boast a very high standard of Mandarin (and many testify that year-for-year, their Mandarin is of a higher standard than their Singaporean counterparts). But the corresponding development of fluency in English and Malay is lopsided. It does not help that the parents choose to speak only Mandarin to their children at home. The result is, the children effectively become mono-lingual in Mandarin. I once had a 15-year-old tell me in Hokkien, “我無看紅毛戲、因爲我不知伊儂佇講何物。”
And it is not as if their Mandarin is better than their counterparts in Mainland China or Taiwan (if so, then shame on the latter!). I have colleagues from Shanghai who speak much better English than many of the current generation of Malaysian Chinese school graduates, a generous sampling of whom I used to share an office with in recent times.
So, I do not fault the poor girl for not trying to speak in English or Malay to you. She probably could not confidently string a decent sentence together in either language to save her life. I hold the education system first, and the parents second, responsible for this sad state of affairs.
Re: Hokkien-Only Policy
I have to say I thoroughly approve of the "kan-na Hokkien" policy, but I think it's also good you are giving them an exit clause by allowing people to speak English or Malay. I started out in Penang with a "kan-na Hokkien" policy, and then realised that it was better to speak Malay to Malays, (no matter how bad, because your average backpacker can't usually even say "terima kasih", and I could do a bit more than that even if I punya-punya-ed a bit too much) and my Baba-style Malay was received better than no Malay at all. Then I found that so many Indians and Malays could manage I as well, so then i just tried Hokkien all the time first.
As regards the monolingual (?) Mandarin speakers, I actually find it amazing that some Chinese parents manage to isolate their children so much from their neighbours (including other Chinese who don't speak Mandarin) by not making usre that they are able to at least manage a bit of the national language, or even a creolised version of it, which is surely one of the easiest languages to learn in the world if you speak any kind of Chinese. Living in Malaysia, where you can listen to and speak about five languages in a single street, you'd think that parents would like to get their children to know as many languages as possible, but the trend seems to be instead to want to limit their opportunities as much as possible.
If people are learning Mandarin for practical purposes, then fine, but ending up purposely with no knowledge of any language but Mandarin seems to defeat the practicality of the exercise.
I think too many children in Penang now don't even have the same upbringing as before, they get driven toschool, live in high rise apartments, never meet people who are not of the same class or language background. Mind you if you work in a kopitiam then you don't really have that excuse.
One thing that I found disturbing was on afternoon in Queensbay Mall they were having a promotion and competition going on, and it was all being announced very loudly in Mandarin only. I thought to myself "If I were Malay or Indian I would feel very excluded by this, in my own country too". I know it is hard to find a language in Malaysia that doesn't exclude, at the moment there isn't one single language that everyone can understand, but I thought that Mandarin was a rather poor choice, and that they could at least have mixed it up with a bit of English or Malay to include more people in what was going on. My conclusion? Queensbay Mall is good for one afternoon, but give me 坡底 any day for good food and conversation.
You should post the video of me on your comment to show that I didn't learn Hokkien in school....maybe that is rubbing salt in the wound though.
As regards the monolingual (?) Mandarin speakers, I actually find it amazing that some Chinese parents manage to isolate their children so much from their neighbours (including other Chinese who don't speak Mandarin) by not making usre that they are able to at least manage a bit of the national language, or even a creolised version of it, which is surely one of the easiest languages to learn in the world if you speak any kind of Chinese. Living in Malaysia, where you can listen to and speak about five languages in a single street, you'd think that parents would like to get their children to know as many languages as possible, but the trend seems to be instead to want to limit their opportunities as much as possible.
If people are learning Mandarin for practical purposes, then fine, but ending up purposely with no knowledge of any language but Mandarin seems to defeat the practicality of the exercise.
I think too many children in Penang now don't even have the same upbringing as before, they get driven toschool, live in high rise apartments, never meet people who are not of the same class or language background. Mind you if you work in a kopitiam then you don't really have that excuse.
One thing that I found disturbing was on afternoon in Queensbay Mall they were having a promotion and competition going on, and it was all being announced very loudly in Mandarin only. I thought to myself "If I were Malay or Indian I would feel very excluded by this, in my own country too". I know it is hard to find a language in Malaysia that doesn't exclude, at the moment there isn't one single language that everyone can understand, but I thought that Mandarin was a rather poor choice, and that they could at least have mixed it up with a bit of English or Malay to include more people in what was going on. My conclusion? Queensbay Mall is good for one afternoon, but give me 坡底 any day for good food and conversation.
You should post the video of me on your comment to show that I didn't learn Hokkien in school....maybe that is rubbing salt in the wound though.
Here I have to add, that it is extremely rare for me to find fault with any of the English that you write! I don't even notice that you are not a native speaker unless you remind me!She saw it and she left a bombastic comment in terrible English (worse than mine XD) that said:
Last edited by Ah-bin on Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Hokkien-Only Policy
Good to hear about everybody's "kanna Hokkiàn" policies. I'ma have to go at it again with a vengeance next time I go to a Hoklo-speaking area.
Interesting that a new breed of sheltered, Mandarin-only kids are coming up in Penang. When I was in KL, I met a few Tn̂glâng that spoke bad Malay, but for some reason I've also met some KL guys and girls that speak constant Manglish and "switch themselves" to English with me.
Interesting that a new breed of sheltered, Mandarin-only kids are coming up in Penang. When I was in KL, I met a few Tn̂glâng that spoke bad Malay, but for some reason I've also met some KL guys and girls that speak constant Manglish and "switch themselves" to English with me.
Re: Hokkien-Only Policy
On a deeper note, I want to add that this is kind of a dilemma for me. On one hand I want to connect with people in any language. On the other hand I feel that there's something intrinsically lame about defaulting to English with a M'sian, esp. one that speaks Hoklo, Cantonese or even Mandarin. Even w/o those three languages (say in a written medium with an ângmo͘sái), my experience is that M'sian Tn̂glâng find it awkward to use Malay with me, much preferring English, and this is a product of the leftover, everyday colonialism that some would much like to bury.
Re: Hokkien-Only Policy
Oh, so what I wrote about (some) Indians in Penang is still valid today! Wow, great! I never knew it about Malays though.Ah-bin wrote:Then I found that so many Indians and Malays could manage I as well, so then i just tried Hokkien all the time first.
Re: Hokkien-Only Policy
So, three days in Amoy, mostly upcoming. I'ma try some form of a Hokkien Only policy. Will assist myself by pretending not to speak Mandarin as necessary. Will let y'all know how it goes.
Re: Hokkien-Only Policy
Don't get too depressed.....
I had some dummies (native Hokkien speakers) actually reply in Mandarin "哦，你會說普通話" ("oh, You can speak Mandarin!") when I asked for things in Hokkien there. You might have a better chance because you aren't white. Good luck in finding ANY children who speak it in public, I couldn't this time, although I did hear one once the first time I went there in late 2006.
I had some dummies (native Hokkien speakers) actually reply in Mandarin "哦，你會說普通話" ("oh, You can speak Mandarin!") when I asked for things in Hokkien there. You might have a better chance because you aren't white. Good luck in finding ANY children who speak it in public, I couldn't this time, although I did hear one once the first time I went there in late 2006.
Re: Hokkien-Only Policy
Then it may be a bit better (but only a bit) in 上海 Siông-Hăi. The last time I was there in 2006, all the taxi drivers default to上海閒話 zan he ei-wO, unless you speak to them in Mandarin. I once showed a lady taxi driver a business card with my desired address showing “宜山路”, to which she automatically said, “宜山路、是勿啦？ yi21 sEⁿ55 lu53, shi22 ve11 laa34?” (the tone contour numbers are based on how I roughly recall her saying it).
Shanghainese is really quite intriguing, as it is a total opposite from the Southern dialects – where the latter have faithfully preserved almost all the Tang consonantal endings but have less-differentiated beginnings, words in the former can only end with a vowel, a glottal stop or –ng, but make up for it with a dizzying array of initials and vowels. I wonder how Classical Chinese texts would sound. But, I digress…
Shanghainese is really quite intriguing, as it is a total opposite from the Southern dialects – where the latter have faithfully preserved almost all the Tang consonantal endings but have less-differentiated beginnings, words in the former can only end with a vowel, a glottal stop or –ng, but make up for it with a dizzying array of initials and vowels. I wonder how Classical Chinese texts would sound. But, I digress…
Re: Hokkien-Only Policy
The "Hoklo Amoy" experiment has come to an end, b/c I've left town, and what a relief -- not to've left town, but to be taking a break from the thankless job of speaking Hoklo in Amoy.
It's just too late right now. I'll be back later to update y'all on the details.
Interestingly enough, there were at least three kids under 10 on the plane who were talking in Hoklo, and they were talking a lot. I was surprised to hear two kids, brothers, speaking articulate Hokkien at check-in, and doubly surprised that their mother spoke to them in Hokkien too. They had a Coanciu accent. The third kid was with his mother. There was something very intriguing about the mother. In giâ--ê sī Hiongkáng hō·ciàu. Boé--á ciūⁿ huiki liáu'āu in cē goá piⁿ--á. This kid was just going on and on in perfect Hoklo, and his mother only spoke Hoklo to him. She (they) had a Coanciu drawl, which I really love, but theirs was "less exotic" to me (i.e. vaguely more Taiwanese) than the Cio̍hsai kind. Turns out she was from Lâm'oaⁿ, but made her way to Hiongkáng and Huili̍ppin at some pt. Kid was born on the islands. Get this, he gínná khah bô 7 hoè (ciuhoè!), íkeng ēhiáu kóng Ho̍hló oē, Hoâgí, Enggí (Chinglish), hoānsè Tagálo̍k, koh ēhiáu tha̍k kài coē hànjī, ah suijiân i teh tha̍k Tâi'oân-sek ê ha̍k'hāu, i soah ēhiáu tī tiānnáu phah Hàn'gí Pheng'im (Pinyin). And the whole time he was talking in Hoklo! But he got frustrated b/c I usually couldn't understand him the first time he said anything. I mean, the Lâm'oaⁿ pronunciations, esp. tones, and vocab -- which I would describe as "badass", very "original Hokkien" -- and all coming out the mouth of a kid... on-board a plane... It was something else.
It's just too late right now. I'll be back later to update y'all on the details.
Interestingly enough, there were at least three kids under 10 on the plane who were talking in Hoklo, and they were talking a lot. I was surprised to hear two kids, brothers, speaking articulate Hokkien at check-in, and doubly surprised that their mother spoke to them in Hokkien too. They had a Coanciu accent. The third kid was with his mother. There was something very intriguing about the mother. In giâ--ê sī Hiongkáng hō·ciàu. Boé--á ciūⁿ huiki liáu'āu in cē goá piⁿ--á. This kid was just going on and on in perfect Hoklo, and his mother only spoke Hoklo to him. She (they) had a Coanciu drawl, which I really love, but theirs was "less exotic" to me (i.e. vaguely more Taiwanese) than the Cio̍hsai kind. Turns out she was from Lâm'oaⁿ, but made her way to Hiongkáng and Huili̍ppin at some pt. Kid was born on the islands. Get this, he gínná khah bô 7 hoè (ciuhoè!), íkeng ēhiáu kóng Ho̍hló oē, Hoâgí, Enggí (Chinglish), hoānsè Tagálo̍k, koh ēhiáu tha̍k kài coē hànjī, ah suijiân i teh tha̍k Tâi'oân-sek ê ha̍k'hāu, i soah ēhiáu tī tiānnáu phah Hàn'gí Pheng'im (Pinyin). And the whole time he was talking in Hoklo! But he got frustrated b/c I usually couldn't understand him the first time he said anything. I mean, the Lâm'oaⁿ pronunciations, esp. tones, and vocab -- which I would describe as "badass", very "original Hokkien" -- and all coming out the mouth of a kid... on-board a plane... It was something else.