Ciangciu/Penang open vs tense /e/

[amhoanna]

A question for the Penang crew. If I want to work backwards from the one /e/ in TW/Amoy to the two in Ciangciu/Penang, is this rule right, true, and complete:

* If Canto cognate has /a/, then open /e/ in Ciangciu/Penang.
* If Canto cognate has /i/, /ai/, or /aai/, then tense /e/ in Ciangciu/Penang.

[SimL]

Hi amhoanna,

I don't know much Cantonese (except lap-chiong ), so I'm going to have to leave it to the others to answer this...

[Yeleixingfeng]

使 - sai in Canto and sai in Hokkien.
米 - mai in Canto and bi in Hokkien

Just a few exceptions I can think of. Maybe I am wrong? Haha.

[amhoanna]

To be clear, this is the other part of the condition:
* If "mainstream" TWese Hoklo has /e/...
(In Amoy these could be either /e/ or /oe/ -- but it seems that in the -e/-oe case, Penang always has a tense /e/.)

I've noticed from this forum that Penang also has an open-tense /e/ distinction in "glottal-stopped" syllables. So, let's see. We have the distinction in:

1) syllables with just the -e
2) syllables with -eh
3) not syllables with -eⁿ
4) not syllables with -ek or -eng
5) not syllables with -oe

All true?

[Ah-bin]

Quite right. I think Penang has

1) -e and –e∙ (E)
2) -eh and –e∙h (Eh) (beh - want to)
3) only –e∙ⁿ (EN)
4) only -ek and -eng (some would spell it -ik and -ing)
5) only -oe (some would spell it -ue)

and there is –e∙ⁿh too! For that I only know "he∙ⁿh" - to pause or take a rest.

[amhoanna]

For that I only know "he∙ⁿh" - to pause or take a rest.

Is this related to TW 歇 hioh, e.g. hiohkhùn? In Penang, I remember learning the word hehkang 歇工 from some people in a shop -- I didn't notice it being nasal. Also, since Cantonese has /hit/, I would've expected the /e/ to be tense.

[SimL]

Good question! I've always wondered whether Penang Hokkien "hEhN" (what a LOVELY syllable!) is related to "hioh" in Amoy "hioh-khun".

It means "pause", "have a break", or even "stop": "i kui tiam be(h)-hEhN?" (= "what time does he want to stop?" (e.g. work)). I suppose there's always some implication of resuming, even if it's only the next day.

The only thing preventing me with strongly associating the two is that *"hEhN-khun" doesn't exist.

[Mark Yong]

The context in which I used it most in Penang was 歇喘 hÊⁿh-chŭan, i.e. ‘to rest’ (more specifically ‘to catch one's breath’). I used to think the character for hÊ (note that back then, I did not pay attention to the nasalisation) was simply 下, as in ‘to lower one's panting’.

[SimL]

Hi everyone,

Wow, internet cafe in London, with Chinese characters .

Yes indeed, hEhN (or is it hENh) is most commonly used in hEhN-chuan. Obviously, I haven't got my Douglas here while travelling, but I'll check if the "chuan2" is the same one as "chuan2-khui3" (= to breath). I imagine it is.

[amhoanna]

So the word hiohkhùn 歇睏 -- or some equivalent -- doesn't exist in PgHK?

Years ago I mentioned to Lîm Kiànhui the Hokkien blogger from Hokkiàn that in Penang they said hèkang for TO TAKE TIME OFF FROM WORK, and he said, Oh, yeah, actually that's hehkang 歇工, heh is Ciangciu for 歇. But I think he typed it w/o the nasal. And actually I think he's from Ciangciu himself -- maybe Liônghái.