To step on a person's tail? Does that phrase have some other meaning I am unaware of?䟜着儂之尾 lap tioq lang e boe, i.e. the act of stepping (on something)
檳城新報 Penang Sin Poe
Re: 檳城新報 Penang Sin Poe
Re: 檳城新報 Penang Sin Poe
Mark: Ah! Haha. Thanks! Sorry, I shouldn't be so Eurocentric and behave as if the only normal milk to drink is cow's milk. Your explanation makes perfect sense. I know what you mean though: I didn't like goat's cheese when I first came across it (here in the Netherlands, goat's cheese and honey seems to be a very popular combination). I do like it nowadays though.
Ah-bin: ROTFL! It didn't occur to me, how odd that sentence was. So, I too would like to know if there's a meaning other than the apparent sum of the individual words...
Ah-bin: ROTFL! It didn't occur to me, how odd that sentence was. So, I too would like to know if there's a meaning other than the apparent sum of the individual words...
Re: 檳城新報 Penang Sin Poe
Ah-bin wrote:
To step on a person's tail? Does that phrase have some other meaning I am unaware of?
I first heard it in Penang (Ah-bin - it was from our mutual friend Eleen), and strongly suspect that yes, it is a direct borrowing from the common English phrase ‘to step on someone's tail’, i.e. to inadvertently offend someone. The borrowing seems to be prevalent in Cantonese, too.SimL wrote:
Ah-bin: ROTFL! It didn't occur to me, how odd that sentence was. So, I too would like to know if there's a meaning other than the apparent sum of the individual words...
Re: 檳城新報 Penang Sin Poe
aokh1979 wrote:
...like 雪文 although etymologically it does not make much sense. ^^
Yup, just saw it. 18th February 1907. I mentioned in a previous post that I once heard a KL (Kepong) Hokkien speaker say 肥皂 pui5 co7 for soap.AndrewAndrew wrote:
胰皂 î-tsō / íh-tsō is also used to mean soap, in a "Sunlight soap" / 日光胰皂 advert from 1907
The more I read the advertisements and articles, the more apparent it becomes the vast difference between the literal language and colloquial spoken Hokkien lexicon. I am now starting to wonder whether Penang Hokkien speakers in those days actually spoke very differently, employing much more use of standard literary words in Hokkien conversations (compared to their descendents today) – given that they would have been taught to read characters in Hokkien.
I am also wondering whether, compared to my idealistic notion of Hokkien speakers reading everything strictly in 讀册音, whether there was, in reality, an accepted practice of sub-consciously glossing over words in 訓讀 or 擬讀. E.g. the last line in the soap advertisement - would a typical Hokkien reader have glossed past the words 更加 in his mind as keng3 ka1 or simply in his native ko3 ka1?
Re: 檳城新報 Penang Sin Poe
Check out the advertisement 鐵管放水筒出售 Boiler Tubes & Water Pipes - Gilfillan, Wood & Co. in the 31st August 1895 issue, Page #2, top half:
“...請到土庫街集安後尾...”
「後尾」 ău-bôe... have I finally spotted a bone fide intrusion of Hokkien vernacular into Literary Chinese?
“...請到土庫街集安後尾...”
「後尾」 ău-bôe... have I finally spotted a bone fide intrusion of Hokkien vernacular into Literary Chinese?
Re: 檳城新報 Penang Sin Poe
Wow! Exciting! Please do post any other such examples you come acrossMark Yong wrote:「後尾」 ău-bôe... have I finally spotted a bone fide intrusion of Hokkien vernacular into Literary Chinese?
.Re: 檳城新報 Penang Sin Poe
Hi Mark,
I think I've found another example of Hokkien-influenced Mandarin for you, this time from a very modern publication; namely, in a little book for kids to learn Mandarin. I bought it as one of a series published by United Publishing House (M) Sdn. Bhd. They're all very simple stories about animals, and have pinyin under the characters. This particular one has the title "大象的功劳".
The following paragraph occurs in it (it's about some animals in a forest):
雨季又来了。今年的雨比往年的大。林中许多树木都被狂风暴雨吹倒了。大家都逃到较高的地方去。
It seems to me that the "较高" was written under the influence of "kha <adjective>" construct for the comparative in Hokkien.
What do you think? Even in my large and excellent Chinese-English dictionary, there are no examples of 较 before an adjective in the sense of the comparative "-er".
I think I've found another example of Hokkien-influenced Mandarin for you, this time from a very modern publication; namely, in a little book for kids to learn Mandarin. I bought it as one of a series published by United Publishing House (M) Sdn. Bhd. They're all very simple stories about animals, and have pinyin under the characters. This particular one has the title "大象的功劳".
The following paragraph occurs in it (it's about some animals in a forest):
雨季又来了。今年的雨比往年的大。林中许多树木都被狂风暴雨吹倒了。大家都逃到较高的地方去。
It seems to me that the "较高" was written under the influence of "kha <adjective>" construct for the comparative in Hokkien.
What do you think? Even in my large and excellent Chinese-English dictionary, there are no examples of 较 before an adjective in the sense of the comparative "-er".
Re: 檳城新報 Penang Sin Poe
Hi, Sim,
You had me thinking there for a while!
Unfortunately, in this case, it appears to be bona fide Mandarin. The 較<adj.> form is equivalent to the English suffix -er, i.e. of the form <adj.>-er. A quick Google search of the phrase “較高的地方” (I kept the search string as short as possible, even dropping the 去, in order to get more hits) yields quite a few results from China-based websites. Unless, of course, this is one instance where the Southerners have had an influence on the Northerners! But I best defer this to someone whose Mandarin is better than mine...
I suspect what you are probably thinking of is 比較 <adj.>, i.e. the equivalent of the English “<adj.>-er compared to <something specific>”. Now, in that instance, the construction is different between Mandarin and Hokkien, the latter having the form “<adj> 過 kùe...”. From my observation, the latter does not occur in printed matter, even in Malaysia. However, in informal conversations in Malaysia, you do get the locals occasionally reverting to the “Southern” form when speaking in Mandarin.
You had me thinking there for a while!
Unfortunately, in this case, it appears to be bona fide Mandarin. The 較<adj.> form is equivalent to the English suffix -er, i.e. of the form <adj.>-er. A quick Google search of the phrase “較高的地方” (I kept the search string as short as possible, even dropping the 去, in order to get more hits) yields quite a few results from China-based websites. Unless, of course, this is one instance where the Southerners have had an influence on the Northerners! But I best defer this to someone whose Mandarin is better than mine...
I suspect what you are probably thinking of is 比較 <adj.>, i.e. the equivalent of the English “<adj.>-er compared to <something specific>”. Now, in that instance, the construction is different between Mandarin and Hokkien, the latter having the form “<adj> 過 kùe...”. From my observation, the latter does not occur in printed matter, even in Malaysia. However, in informal conversations in Malaysia, you do get the locals occasionally reverting to the “Southern” form when speaking in Mandarin.
Re: 檳城新報 Penang Sin Poe
Hi Mark,
I've been away for quite a while, but back now.
Thanks for checking this. I hadn't thought to google "較高的地方", but this was exactly the right thing to do to find Mandarin sentences with this construct. So this disproves my conjecture.
Am I correct in thinking that Penang Hokkien has two known constructions for English "<adj>-er than <noun>/<pronoun>", namely "kha <adj> ka <noun>/<pronoun>" and "<adj> kue <noun>/<pronoun>"? I thought Ah-bin mentioned this in an earlier thread.
In any case, I use the first only, and the second I only recognize passively. I think I said at the time that my usage might be due to English influence.
I've been away for quite a while, but back now.
Thanks for checking this. I hadn't thought to google "較高的地方", but this was exactly the right thing to do to find Mandarin sentences with this construct. So this disproves my conjecture.
Am I correct in thinking that Penang Hokkien has two known constructions for English "<adj>-er than <noun>/<pronoun>", namely "kha <adj> ka <noun>/<pronoun>" and "<adj> kue <noun>/<pronoun>"? I thought Ah-bin mentioned this in an earlier thread.
In any case, I use the first only, and the second I only recognize passively. I think I said at the time that my usage might be due to English influence.
Re: 檳城新報 Penang Sin Poe
In this instance, Sim, I would be the antithesis of you!SimL wrote:
Am I correct in thinking that Penang Hokkien has two known constructions for English "<adj>-er than <noun>/<pronoun>", namely "kha <adj> ka <noun>/<pronoun>" and "<adj> kue <noun>/<pronoun>"? I thought Ah-bin mentioned this in an earlier thread.
I use the latter, i.e. <adj> 過 kue <noun>/<pronoun>, or at most, 較 kha <adj>[/i] 過 kue <noun>/<pronoun>. In both instances, 過 kue is used. I am not familiar with the use of 共 ka in this context.