Cantonese in Vietnam, reports from the field

[hokkien_learner]

Here's a cool-looking forum on Cantonese:

http://tiengquangdong.com/index.phtml?/

(in VNmese)

U gotta love the forum tagline: 敢想敢做.

Sorry. I can say I am Vietnamese Chinese and so I am anti-Viet and I am also anti-Vietnamised Chinese people. So that forum is not for me and I am not gonna join them on that

[amhoanna]

Sorry. I can say I am Vietnamese Chinese and so I am anti-Viet and I am also anti-Vietnamised Chinese people. So that forum is not for me and I am not gonna join them on that

I'm curious. Why are U anti-Viet?

Are U also against Anglicized Chinese people, or are U proud to be one? Perhaps this forum is not for U either and U're not gonna join us here?

About the language, I am not so sure but I was taught that North Vietnamese language is based on Chinese Tang Dynasty's education system while the south Vietnamese language is based on either Chinese Ming and Qing Dynasties's education system. Maybe I am wrong. Could be. Feel free to correct me.

Who "taught" you this? What do they mean by a language being based on an education system? If anything, both dialects seem to be pretty corroded in relation to the proto-language. I say this b/c some of the dialects in middle Vietnam seem to preserve a lot more distinctions than either N or S.

[hokkien_learner]

Sorry. I can say I am Vietnamese Chinese and so I am anti-Viet and I am also anti-Vietnamised Chinese people. So that forum is not for me and I am not gonna join them on that

I'm curious. Why are U anti-Viet?

Are U also against Anglicized Chinese people, or are U proud to be one? Perhaps this forum is not for U either and U're not gonna join us here?

About the language, I am not so sure but I was taught that North Vietnamese language is based on Chinese Tang Dynasty's education system while the south Vietnamese language is based on either Chinese Ming and Qing Dynasties's education system. Maybe I am wrong. Could be. Feel free to correct me.

Who "taught" you this? What do they mean by a language being based on an education system? If anything, both dialects seem to be pretty corroded in relation to the proto-language. I say this b/c some of the dialects in middle Vietnam seem to preserve a lot more distinctions than either N or S.

Make no mistakes.

Vietnamese Chinese people is people who still speak Chinese languages in Vietnam and still follow Chinese tradition and culture.
Vietnamised Chinese people is people who come from Chinese families but Cant speak Chinese at all and they proudly declare that they are Vietnamese people and denied that they have nothing to do with Chinese people and culture and they hate China. Furthermore, they usually follow the Vietnamese people to mock , make fun of us and our languages. in Vietnam, We used to call them Bon Mat Goc mean "People who forget about their own ancestor's tradition, root and culture".

I am anti-Viet because the way they been treating us is disgusting. They said they respect and friendly and always looking for close friendship with us but they always called us Nguoi Tau (even though they know it is offensive), they make fun of our language and tradition. They exterminated in Hanoi and Haiphong and masscred us Cho Lon many times before and they forcibly suppressed us many times in the past and if something happen between China and Vietnam, they blame everything on us. Like it was our faults that they lost in 1979 during Sino-Vietnam war.

I am only anti-Viet and anti-Vietnamised Chinese. I am not anti-Vietnamese Chinese or any anglicised Chinese.

About the language, we have our own books in Vietnam as well. and that what they said in the books.

furthermore, The so-called Modern Vietnamese language or Vietnamese language can put somewhat as a term of "a language never existed". Modern Vietnamese language is a language using a mixture of pronunciation and meaning from Han Viet and Chu Nom with a grammar modified by French.

If you want to know about Han Viet and Chu Nom, Visit theses site and you will know that both Han Viet and Chu Nom were written in Characters:

http://hanviet.org/

Han Viet was a language for Vietnam's scholars and government officials language just like we have qoon wa in China before

http://nomfoundation.org/vnpf_new/index.php?IDcat=52 or
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2 ... 504&v=wall

Chu nom is a language which was invented by indigenous Vietnamese people but was based Han writing system but was modified and they used pronunciation for more into pure Viet's natural speaking language. Chu Nom is usually used by Vietnamese peasants and common people in the old Vietnam and used to be called by Ha Nhan Ngon Ngu (下人言語) in Han Viet or those scholars

[amhoanna]

It seems like every other time I go out and about and make conversation here, there'll be a Canto speaker in the group of people I'm talking to. Seems like U couldn't scatter a handful of green beans here w/o hitting a Cantophone. And this is Q3/Q10 (第三、十郡), well outside of Chợlớn 堤岸.

Today I spoke to an older gentleman whose parents fled Kwongtung during the Chinese Civil War. They came from Fayeun 花県, but they weren't Hakka. I had some trouble understanding the man. His pronunciation and his entire aura seemed very Vietnamized, more so than most of the Canto speakers I've met here. He didn't use the Cantonese pronoun 你 lei even once. Instead, he referred to me as 細佬 sailou. Very interesting, I thought. I had to kind of strain to understand him, esp. with the background noise, but fortunately I was able to "get" almost every sentence. I guess "studying abroad" in Canton is paying off. In the past I might've had a lot of trouble understanding these Canto spkrs in Saigon. Unlike KL Cantonese, Saigon Cantonese ranges far from the media standard.

Today's gentleman referred to MONEY as lui 鐳, pronounced exactly as it would be in Amoy-type Hoklo: rounded back /u/ in the diphthong (not fronted), in a high, level tone. The etymon was active for making compounds. At one pt he said 車鐳 che-lui. In the context, I'm pretty sure he meant BUS FARE. Chin 錢 didn't seem to figure in his vocabulary at all.

Another interesting observation. The Cantonese spkrs usually launch into Cantonese w/me as soon as they hear me say I'm "người Tàu", even though I always say I'm from Taiwan or Indonesia, countries where Cantonese is bahasa non grata. And while Chinese schools here teach Mandarin, I think there are lots of people who speak Cantonese but never learned Mandarin.

[hokkien_learner]

Chinese people in Vietnam is not only concentrated in Cholon, we spread throughout the whole southern Vietnam. Several famous places of Chinese concentrated in Vietnam are Cholon (which is known for the last, oldest, most populous stronghold for Chinese people in Vietnam), Bien Hoa, Bac Lieu, Ca mao, Soc trang.

We even have our own poems about Bac Lieu and Ca mao but only available in Teochew and Cantonese. If you speak to people Cholon, maybe they can show you some.

You're right, most Chinese people speak Cantonese and never learn Mandarin. Just like me, if I am still in Vietnam, I would have no idea what is Mandarin language. However, due to China and Taiwan's influence, now alot of Chinese families in Cholon urged the young generation to learn Mandarin. Not sure about those Chinese Schools, but my cousin went to a private Chinese schools to learn Mandarin and they using Cantonese as instructive language.

[amhoanna]

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[amhoanna]

Poems in Teochew and Canto? Cool.

There's a 金甌會舘 in Los Ángeles. For the longest time, this threw me for a loop. Then I realized 金甌 was Ca Mau. Along with the 台湾會舘 in Los Ángeles, it's one of the few 唐人 會舘s I know based on a homeland outside of China. If I may be so bold as to read into it, I'd say that's a sign that 唐人 somehow considered themselves to still be in China when they went to 台湾 and 金甌. This is why TWnese Hokkiens say their 籍貫 is Taiwan, but Luzon Hokkiens, etc., say their 籍貫 is Hokkian.

[guitaryf]

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