The reason why min language is significantly different from cantonese and mandarin is because some characters were used in old chinese but not cantonese/mandarin anymore.
Character - Sound / Meaning
汝 - Lu, Ly / You
伊 - Ee / He,she
毋 - Mm / Not
使 - Sai / Can
拍 - P'ak / Hit
逐 - Tak / Every (day etc)
掠 - Lia / Catch
寒 - Kua / Cold
偌 - Lua / How (much, big etc)
濟 - Cay / Many, numerous
較 - K'a / Compare
緊 - Kin / Fast
箸 - Tu / Chopstick
鼎 - Tia / Wok
著 - Tiuk / Correct
著 - Ti / 「在」
抹 - Bua / Apply (medicine etc)
呸 - P'ui / Spit
拭 - C'it / Wipe with cloth
扛 - Keng / Lift with shoulders
飼 - C'i / Feed
厝 - C'u / House
戇 - Gong / Stupid
枵 - Iau / Hungry
晡 - Po / Afternoon
糜 - Muei / Porridge
與 - Ho / Give
共 - Ka(ng) / Together, with
蟳 - Cim / Crab
烏 - O / Black
吼 - Hau / Cry
疼 - T'ia / Painful
愈 - Nu / More
曉 - Hiau / Understand, Know
炊 - C'ui / Steam (food)
歕 - Pun / Blow (wind)
摻 - C'am / Mix (food etc)
沃 - Ak / Pour water, irrigate
懸 - Kuan,Kui / Tall
冗 - Ling / Loose
犭肖 - Siau / Mad
㴷 (糊糊) - Tam (Kou Kou) / Wet
刣 - T'ai / Kill
綴 - Tue / Follow
恬 - Tiam / Silent
轉 - Teng / Go back
縛 - Pak / Tie (a string etc)
歇 - Hio / Rest
睏 - K'un / Sleep
頂 - Ting / Last (time), Upper (floor)
潐 - Ta / Dry (quote from modern dictionary 水盡)
趖 - Sou / Walk or do things very slowly similar to dragging the feet
捋 - Lua / Comb (hair)
捍 - Hua / Uphold
故 - Kou / Again
褪 - T'eng / Remove
芳 - P'ang / Fragrant
曝 - P'ak / Dry by sun (clothes etc)
翁 - Ang / Husband or Old man
姥 - Bo / Wife or Old woman
囝 - Kiann / Child
毋會 - Bay (Combination of Mm and Ay) / Cannot
毋通- Mm T'ang / Don't
毋愛 - Mai (combination of Mm and Ai) / Don't want
相同 - Siang (combination of Sio and Tang) / Same
許 - Hi, Hy / That
許一 - Hit (combination of Hi and It) / That
之一 - Cit (combination of Ci and It)/ This
否 - P'ai / Bad
否勢 - P'ai Say / Sorry
暗瞑 - Am Mi / At Night
合意 - Ka Ee / To like
臭焦 - C'au Ta / Burnt, scorched
攏總 - Long Cong / All
灶骹 - Cau K'a / Kitchen
夭壽 - Iau Siu / Short life (for scolding people)
跋倒 - Pua To / Fall down
淡薄 - Tam Puk/ A little
細膩 - Say Li / Careful
閃開 - Siam K'ui / Move away
目屎 - Bak Sai / Tears
底時 - Ti Si / When
雞婆 - Kay Po/ Busybody
尻川 - K'a C'eng / Buttocks
卵 - Neng / Egg
卵鳥 - Lan Jiau / Penis
Original chinese characters for Minnan
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Original chinese characters for Minnan
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Re: Original chinese characters for Minnan
I notice a lot of people out there using 未 to write [勿會], including people whose kanji usage is fairly well thought out. This is not only etymologically off, but also way confusing for the average Beng. I guess it really bugs me. Why do people do this? Any logical reason?
Re: Original chinese characters for Minnan
Probably because in certain variants, [勿會] and 未 are pronounced as bē. In my variant they are quite different, buē and bē· (=bēr).
Re: Original chinese characters for Minnan
In Mainstream TWnese, [勿會] = bē and 未 = boē.
In Amoy TWnese, and Mainstream Amoy, these two are flipped.
I've never heard or heard about a dialect where the two were merged! But the potential for confusion is always there, esp. with different dialects in earshot of each other throughout most of the Hoklosphere. No doubt there's some "not 3, not 4" semi-speakers who mix the two w/o even knowing the difference.
Although I think Sisuahlai wrote a blog post about the general trend of 無 and 勿會 and maybe 未 as well all merging in his dialect (Kuching, Sarawak).
There was a TWnese blogger who wrote a post justifying the use of 未 for both 未 and 勿會, saying that which is which is always clear from context. I can't help thinking that the real thinking behind all this is a wish to write Hoklo using just kanji that are used in everyday Mandoscripts. Or am I missing something?
In Amoy TWnese, and Mainstream Amoy, these two are flipped.
I've never heard or heard about a dialect where the two were merged! But the potential for confusion is always there, esp. with different dialects in earshot of each other throughout most of the Hoklosphere. No doubt there's some "not 3, not 4" semi-speakers who mix the two w/o even knowing the difference.
Although I think Sisuahlai wrote a blog post about the general trend of 無 and 勿會 and maybe 未 as well all merging in his dialect (Kuching, Sarawak).
There was a TWnese blogger who wrote a post justifying the use of 未 for both 未 and 勿會, saying that which is which is always clear from context. I can't help thinking that the real thinking behind all this is a wish to write Hoklo using just kanji that are used in everyday Mandoscripts. Or am I missing something?
Re: Original chinese characters for Minnan
This is how I say them (I seem to use strong "d" as oppose to "l" 可能被南洋化了吧？？？):
汝 - Di / You
拍 - P'a / Hit
掠 - Dia / Catch
偌 - Dua / How (much, big etc)
濟 - Cue / Many, numerous （是不是“多”的意思？）
箸 - Ti / Chopstick
著 - Tio / Correct
扛 - Kua/Ta / Lift with shoulders （與“肝”同音）
糜 - Be / Porridge（是粥的意思？）
共 - Kiong/Sang / Together, with
炊 - C'e / Steam (food)
冗 - Deng / Loose
綴 - Te / Follow
歇 - Hio / Rest
睏 - K'un / Sleep (I find 歇睏 to mean rest interesting, we say "hiu sek" 休息)
趖 - So / Walk or do things very slowly similar to dragging the feet （應該是指“爬”吧？？？）
捋 - Dua / Comb (hair)
囝 - Kin-na / Child
毋會 - Bue (Combination of Mm and Ay) / Cannot
毋愛 - Em-ai (combination of Mm and Ai) / Don't want
相同 - Sa-tang (combination of Sio and Tang) / Same
淡薄 - Tam-po/ A little
細膩 - Sue-di / Careful
閃開 - Siam K'ui or Siam-tsau/ Move away
*家婆 - Ke Po/ Busybody
汝 - Di / You
拍 - P'a / Hit
掠 - Dia / Catch
偌 - Dua / How (much, big etc)
濟 - Cue / Many, numerous （是不是“多”的意思？）
箸 - Ti / Chopstick
著 - Tio / Correct
扛 - Kua/Ta / Lift with shoulders （與“肝”同音）
糜 - Be / Porridge（是粥的意思？）
共 - Kiong/Sang / Together, with
炊 - C'e / Steam (food)
冗 - Deng / Loose
綴 - Te / Follow
歇 - Hio / Rest
睏 - K'un / Sleep (I find 歇睏 to mean rest interesting, we say "hiu sek" 休息)
趖 - So / Walk or do things very slowly similar to dragging the feet （應該是指“爬”吧？？？）
捋 - Dua / Comb (hair)
囝 - Kin-na / Child
毋會 - Bue (Combination of Mm and Ay) / Cannot
毋愛 - Em-ai (combination of Mm and Ai) / Don't want
相同 - Sa-tang (combination of Sio and Tang) / Same
淡薄 - Tam-po/ A little
細膩 - Sue-di / Careful
閃開 - Siam K'ui or Siam-tsau/ Move away
*家婆 - Ke Po/ Busybody
Re: Original chinese characters for Minnan
Amhoanna, thanks for explaining. I c, so actually [勿會] and 未 are always different in historical variants. I think some Singaporeans also has mixed them. Personally I also don't see the logical reason why they could be both written as 未.
Siamiwako, your vocabs are very similar to my variant. However, "to lift with shoulder(s)" in my variant is 擔 taⁿ; while kuāⁿ in my variant means "to carry with hand using bag or rope". 扛 "kng" in my variant means to carry / lift up heavy things.
Siamiwako, your vocabs are very similar to my variant. However, "to lift with shoulder(s)" in my variant is 擔 taⁿ; while kuāⁿ in my variant means "to carry with hand using bag or rope". 扛 "kng" in my variant means to carry / lift up heavy things.
Re: Original chinese characters for Minnan
You're right! Ta 擔 is different from kua. 擔 should be closer to 挑（挑水）.niuc wrote: Siamiwako, your vocabs are very similar to my variant. However, "to lift with shoulder(s)" in my variant is 擔 taⁿ; while kuāⁿ in my variant means "to carry with hand using bag or rope". 扛 "kng" in my variant means to carry / lift up heavy things.
扛/Ka (nasal)
Re: Original chinese characters for Minnan
A related question. Are there any dialects where 會 is oẽ, not ẽ?
Since the TWnese traditionally sing songs in Amoy dialect, I've heard phrasage like "kám oẽsái" in songs. But, not sure if anybody actually talks like that. Seems like 會 is ẽ in speech in Amoy-type dialects as well?
Siamiwako, thanks for sharing the Pinoy Hoklo. No surprises there, most of the words and usages seem to be very similar to Taiwan-Amoy. I would love to see some sentences sometime! I always hear that sentence in my head: "Si di abe paga din..."
My guess is that L or D sounds like [d] in Cìnkang and around there.
BTW, did U learn Hoklo romanization somewhere? Your romanization is very consistent.
Since the TWnese traditionally sing songs in Amoy dialect, I've heard phrasage like "kám oẽsái" in songs. But, not sure if anybody actually talks like that. Seems like 會 is ẽ in speech in Amoy-type dialects as well?
Siamiwako, thanks for sharing the Pinoy Hoklo. No surprises there, most of the words and usages seem to be very similar to Taiwan-Amoy. I would love to see some sentences sometime! I always hear that sentence in my head: "Si di abe paga din..."
My guess is that L or D sounds like [d] in Cìnkang and around there.
BTW, did U learn Hoklo romanization somewhere? Your romanization is very consistent.
Re: Original chinese characters for Minnan
BTW when I was passing through Cambodia a few days ago, I noticed lots of romanized Teochew/Hokkien on signs everywhere, esp. in and around Phnom Penh. Some signs used "d" for /l/.
The romanization on the signs was remarkably consistent, all things considered.
There were also lots of signs in Mandarin (Pinyin), and some in Vietnamese. There was one other language, a "mystery language" where 蘇源 became So Nguon. Anyone care to guess?
My guess: Hoisan. Second guess: Hakka.
The "Chinese language" seems to enjoy a status in Phnom Penh similar to what it has going on in Sabah, with about the same penetration of PRC kanji. (Down the road in Saigon, PRC kanji are a rare sight!) Shop signs reflect the Hoklo (mostly Teochew) heritage of P.P. Tnglang, but Cantonese seems to be more widely spoken at this pt. I went inside a big bookstore where up to a quarter of the books were in Chinese (mostly PRC kanji). This seems to tip off that much of the population is Chinese-educated and may well read Chinese more skilfully than Khmer. Some of the employees were gabbing away in Vietnamese. Such multiculturalism is rare indeed in postcolonial S.E. There were a few books and CDs for learning Mandarin, and two sets for learning Cantonese, which seems to be a popular language to learn there.
I spoke to a young Cambodian dude at the Thai border who said his father spoke fluent VNmese and his mother fluent Chinese -- most likely Teochew, but I don't think he knew. He knew a little VNmese and little Mandarin, but when I said "ciạ'puịⁿ" to see if he knew any Teochew, he thought I was asking him if he spoke Japanese. In any case, wherever a Chinese-speaking woman is having the babies of a non-Chinese-speaking guy, U know the Tnglang are well and truly entrenched in that place -- even West Malaysia isn' there yet.
The romanization on the signs was remarkably consistent, all things considered.
There were also lots of signs in Mandarin (Pinyin), and some in Vietnamese. There was one other language, a "mystery language" where 蘇源 became So Nguon. Anyone care to guess?
My guess: Hoisan. Second guess: Hakka.
The "Chinese language" seems to enjoy a status in Phnom Penh similar to what it has going on in Sabah, with about the same penetration of PRC kanji. (Down the road in Saigon, PRC kanji are a rare sight!) Shop signs reflect the Hoklo (mostly Teochew) heritage of P.P. Tnglang, but Cantonese seems to be more widely spoken at this pt. I went inside a big bookstore where up to a quarter of the books were in Chinese (mostly PRC kanji). This seems to tip off that much of the population is Chinese-educated and may well read Chinese more skilfully than Khmer. Some of the employees were gabbing away in Vietnamese. Such multiculturalism is rare indeed in postcolonial S.E. There were a few books and CDs for learning Mandarin, and two sets for learning Cantonese, which seems to be a popular language to learn there.
I spoke to a young Cambodian dude at the Thai border who said his father spoke fluent VNmese and his mother fluent Chinese -- most likely Teochew, but I don't think he knew. He knew a little VNmese and little Mandarin, but when I said "ciạ'puịⁿ" to see if he knew any Teochew, he thought I was asking him if he spoke Japanese. In any case, wherever a Chinese-speaking woman is having the babies of a non-Chinese-speaking guy, U know the Tnglang are well and truly entrenched in that place -- even West Malaysia isn' there yet.
Re: Original chinese characters for Minnan
I use 昧 for bē (cannot) and 未 buē (not yet) in Penang variant......
昧曉 - bē-hiáu
昧使 - bē-sái
昧曉 - bē-hiáu
昧使 - bē-sái