Can anyone tell me about how long it can take on average to be able to hold casual conversations in Chinese for an American? I know this is a hard question but I am curious. I know that with Spanish with an immersion program within 3-4 months or less you can be holding nice conversations, is it the same situation with Chinese or is it a whole different world?
Also does anyone know if it does take half a life-time to become fluent?
speaking proficiency
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Wu
Re: speaking proficiency
I can't exactly answer that first question, but the second is a bit easier. Scientifically, it may take 5 years and more to become fluent in any language, for an individual with an average IQ.
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ppk
Re: speaking proficiency
i think it would be 6-12mths for very basic conversation if a westerner work hard enuff, in a chinese environment.
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Willy Wang
Re: speaking proficiency
No matter what language a person of any race is learning, as long as he or she works hard and is in the right environment, he can master the language in an incredible speed. However, if he only go about it half-heartedly, then it would indeed take him half a life-time.
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JCampbell
Re: speaking proficiency
I worked hard at it the first year and after 14 months of immersion I could hold a conversation about many different subjects, and could read a newspaper or magazine, but still had a lot of vocabulary to learn (it was gradual, but I stopped going through textbooks and studying/writing characters). After that I learned vocabulary through speech talking with people, or directly from the dictionary. I don't think my fluency, especially listening, reached close to my current ability until after about 2 years, and since that time I haven't studied anymore [Mandarin], but started focusing on other Chinese languages. I'm quite satisfied with my fluency now, but I would like to be able to improve some rhetorical ability and be able to hold an audience. That's more of a speaking skill than necessarily a language ability though. The biggest hurdle was going from not just understanding a lot but to finally being able to express myself clearly as well.
Half a lifetime, that's a little exaggerated, but I think I've met foreigners who have lived here for decades and still can't speak Chinese, so I wonder. Personally I think they're stubborn and just don't take the initiative to do anything about it. If you live here for a year and never ask or look in a book about how to say somethingn in Chinese, you're still going to recognize some things you've heard everyday (at least hearing something 365 times is enough to recognize a phrase or two unless you're just plain daft).
Half a lifetime, that's a little exaggerated, but I think I've met foreigners who have lived here for decades and still can't speak Chinese, so I wonder. Personally I think they're stubborn and just don't take the initiative to do anything about it. If you live here for a year and never ask or look in a book about how to say somethingn in Chinese, you're still going to recognize some things you've heard everyday (at least hearing something 365 times is enough to recognize a phrase or two unless you're just plain daft).
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Dr_aggie
Re: speaking proficiency
It is even hard to define what "fluency" is in Chinese.
Chinese intellectuals often use classic words, quotations, and idioms in their conversation. Even a native speaker can get confused with them. Chinese people are really fond of poems, so don't get shocked if you hear middle school kids quoting poems of Tang in their casual speeches. Of course, the words in ancient articles do not mean the same thing as they do today.
What I would emphasize is that no textbook or lecture teaches you "obscene words". However, they are everywhere. Unlike "@!#$" in English, some Chinese terms never appear in a book and few people really know how to write them; but people use them every day, every hour. There are also many dialect words which have not been officially recognized but are widely used in the country. Also, people from different regions speak different "mandarin". Native Chinese know how to recognize them.
As a summary, if you are determined to learn Chinese, you must go to China.
Chinese intellectuals often use classic words, quotations, and idioms in their conversation. Even a native speaker can get confused with them. Chinese people are really fond of poems, so don't get shocked if you hear middle school kids quoting poems of Tang in their casual speeches. Of course, the words in ancient articles do not mean the same thing as they do today.
What I would emphasize is that no textbook or lecture teaches you "obscene words". However, they are everywhere. Unlike "@!#$" in English, some Chinese terms never appear in a book and few people really know how to write them; but people use them every day, every hour. There are also many dialect words which have not been officially recognized but are widely used in the country. Also, people from different regions speak different "mandarin". Native Chinese know how to recognize them.
As a summary, if you are determined to learn Chinese, you must go to China.
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susan
Re: speaking proficiency
interested in your contribution to the forum. Would like to know ifyou live in china or have lived there and what is your interest in chinese language. hope I am not being too forward in asking this. I have been there twice last year and now have decided to learn the language, although I am not a natural at languages (lived injapan teaching english for 4 years and learnt somethings but could have learnt alot more, if I had really tried, which I did not).
susan
susan
Re: speaking proficiency
I don't think my fluency, especially listening, reached close to my current ability until after about 2 years, and since that time I haven't studied anymore [Mandarin], but started focusing on other Chinese languages.